Losing all hope...not an overexaggeration

I would do a small BIAB batch with store bought water and store crushed grain. This way you would be eliminating a lot of variables at once. Also get a brand new bucket or gallon jug and air lock. I don’t think 65 deg would render it un drinkable but try to keep it a little lower.

[quote=“rebuiltcellars”]If when you brew all-extract it comes out OK, and when you use grain it doesn’t, that clearly points to something related to the grain - provided everything else in the process is kept constant.

I also store my grains in an outside shed, which can swing from 80F in the summer to -20F in the winter. Not a problem. But I keep them in airtight buckets to protect against humidity which would cause them to go stale. Stale does not taste like baby vomit, so I doubt that is the main issue. However, if animals are getting into the grains, that could certainly cause that kind of flavor, depending on what they are leaving behind in it.[/quote]

I’ll try to answer more questions on this one post. Forgive me if I miss any. First, I have had both extract (the most recent failure) and all grain taste bad. The problem started in my all-grain batches, and we think was from poor grain storage (five gallon bucket/Tupperware container in the shed. The last batch I did was boiled on my deck and has tasted fine so far. To the best of my memory, all the bad batches tasted funky after primary, even before I kegged/bottled. The taste either gets worse with time or I start noticing it more and become unable to stand it any longer. The taste is not something that is intolerable, but it isn’t good. I eventually dumped all the bad batches.

My deep freeze is underneath a lean to on the back of the shed. I have a temp controller, so I’ve kept my temps in range for the most part. In the past I’ve had trouble keeping the temps up on cooler nights, but I recently got a dual temp control and can do heating or cooling.

As for my brew set up, I am very low tech. I do small (3gal) BIAB in either a stainless steel or aluminum boil kettle. I use a copper wort chiller and rarely any kind of siphon to transfer to fermenting vessel. I just pour it in and use a funnel (always sanitized). I aerate with oxygen and always soak the tube and stone in star San before use.

I rarely test my fermenting wort during fermentation, but instead I wait until the bubbling and then give it another 3-5 days before testing. As I mentioned, when I tested with hydrometer at this point, it’s tasted funny, but I give it time (2-4 weeks) to see if it improves.

What is your water source? Bottle RO, distilled, or with a garden hose from your own well?

He uses store bought. Maybe someone is messing with your stuff.

Tell us more about this… how do you sanitize your IC? Do you do anything else with your stone other than soaking it in star San?

Also, not sure if I missed it but what are you fermenting in? I ask because if this is being caused by an infection that wasn’t addressed when you replaced all the soft material, you simply just reintroduced the infection to the new soft material.

This was the other thing that came to mind was fermentation temperature. I have a friend that won’t listen to me when I tell him to ferment in a swamp cooler or something to control temps. He seems to think 65* ambient basement temps is enough to control his fermentation temps. Every beer he makes has a very nasty off flavor that I attribute to very warm and active fermentation.[/quote]

I used danstar Nottingham yeast on the last bad batch. I set my deep freeze temp control in the low 60s and left it there. Several nights got cool, so I don’t think it ever got to anywhere above 70. The fluctuation of temp may have stressed the yeast, but some of the batches that were bad but had more stable temps.

Tell us more about this… how do you sanitize your IC? Do you do anything else with your stone other than soaking it in star San?

Also, not sure if I missed it but what are you fermenting in? I ask because if this is being caused by an infection that wasn’t addressed when you replaced all the soft material, you simply just reintroduced the infection to the new soft material.[/quote]

Fermented the last bad batch in a six gallon plastic bucket. Have fermented other bad batches in glass. As for the IC, I usually soak until 15 min before the boil ends, and then I put it in the boiling wort. With the air stone, I simply soak it in star San for most of the time I’m boiling.

It’s pretty dusty. More so since we got cats, which coincides with about the time I started having these issues. I just always assumed that if I boiled in there, it would be fine as long as I got it covered pretty quickly after it cooled.

With the last bad batch, I cooled in the same shed tht I boiled in. I ferment in a deep freeze that is temp controlled and is located under a lean to behind the shed.

UPDATE: The hydrometer sample from my latest batch, a simcoe SMASH, tasted great and seemed to have NO off flavors. I boiled on my patio and the only time it was in the shed, it had an airlock and was covered. The next batch I’ll try, a sweet stout, I’m not going to step foot onthe shed with it. I’m also going to set the temp control to 60 degrees for the Nottingham yeast.
at 60

Are you temperature controlling the interior of the freezer, or do you have the temperature probe insulated on the side of the carboy to control the temperature of the fermenting beer?
Controlling the temperature of the freezer can still allow fermentation temperature spikes.

Am I the only one who wants to know how he knows what baby vomit tastes like? :slight_smile:

One of the samples in the BJCP practice taste kit.

One of the samples in the BJCP practice taste kit.[/quote]
What does the BJCP taste kit say that sample is representative of?

I’m not saying this is the issue but you really should be boiling that aeration stone. While boiling it also push some air through it. It could be a source of infection.

Good advice. Will boil next brew day.

[quote=“flars”]Are you temperature controlling the interior of the freezer, or do you have the temperature probe insulated on the side of the carboy to control the temperature of the fermenting beer?
Controlling the temperature of the freezer can still allow fermentation temperature spikes.[/quote]

I am temp controlling based on the deep freezer interior. Up until the last two months, I only had a one-way temperature controller. I put the probe in a gallon of water on the side farthest from the compressor. I just bought a thermostar controller with the 12" probe. I have yet to use that probe bc I don’t have a stopper for it.

With the probe in the gallon of water the fermenting wort will be a higher temperature. The water isn’t producing heat. You can estimate the temperature rise of the wort, and adjust for the water not changing temperature.
The probe can be taped to the side of the fermentor, and then tape insulation over the probe, to use the controller for adjusting the freezer temperature, as the temperature of the fermenting beer changes. This is probably the most accurate if you have only one fermentor going in the freezer.

One of the samples in the BJCP practice taste kit.[/quote]
What does the BJCP taste kit say that sample is representative of?[/quote]

Butyric Acid, an off-flavor produced by some bacteria. From Wiki:

Butyric acid (from Greek βούτῡρον, meaning “butter”), also known under the systematic name butanoic acid, abbreviated BTA,[5] is a carboxylic acid with the structural formula CH3CH2CH2-COOH. Salts and esters of butyric acid are known as butyrates or butanoates. Butyric acid is found in milk, especially goat, sheep and buffalo milk, butter, Parmesan cheese, and as a product of anaerobic fermentation (including in the colon and as body odor). It has an unpleasant smell and acrid taste, with a sweetish aftertaste (similar to ether). It can be detected by mammals with good scent detection abilities (such as dogs) at 10 ppb, whereas humans can detect it in concentrations above 10 ppm.

Butyric acid is present in, and is the main distinctive smell of, human vomit

Just posting back to see if this was ever resolved. Threads like this one can help a lot of people who are having contamination problems.

Hopefully this issue is long since resolved. If not, don’t give up yet. Try seeing if someone from a local Homebrew Club will come out and help you. There are usually at least one or two who will gladly do it-might be a way to have an outsider look at your process.