Just made one today. I know it’s more Czech than German but whatever. I wanted to try something that AJ DeLange had suggested. I did a Hochkurz Mash (145x30 and 160x60) with 7.75 lbs of Durst Turbo Pils, 1.25 lbs of Weyermann Munich 10 and 4 ounces of Carafoam. Hallertau Tradition (5.5 AAU) to bitter for 60 mins, an ounce of Saaz 4% at 15 and then again at 5. Wyeast 2124. I used 90% distilled water, 10% filtered tap water and 4.5g of calcium chloride in the mash. Final water numbers were Ca 44, Mg 1, Na 1, Cl 74, SO4 3, HCO3 11. Took a hydro sample reading and got exactly what I expected… 1.052 OG.
In other news (and don’t ask me why this style is any different), I sampled a kegged Blonde Ale today (Pale Malt, Vienna, Acid Malt, Carapils) where I used 50% distilled water and just 2.5g of CaCl in the mash. Tettnanger and Hallertau hops and 1056. The sample tasted awesome. Not sure why I would need a 90% dilution rate on the Pils but only 50% on the Blonde Ale (same color… 5 SRM) but I will report back after some “research” on both. Cheers.
So funny. I am thinking of what lager to build next and am looking at something very similar to yours.
The hop bill will be the exact same but an ounce of Saaz at 10min and 5min, and using a noble fwh bittering to overall 30 ibu.
For the grain bill I was going to go a bit different. Probably 3lbs of Vienna, .75lb caramunich 60L, 4oz Acid malt, and enough Bo pilsner to 1.052. Mashing around 148F.
I’m looking for an early spring dark golden quaffable lager with nice easy Saaz presence.
[quote=“brewingdan”]So funny. I am thinking of what lager to build next and am looking at something very similar to yours.
The hop bill will be the exact same but an ounce of Saaz at 10min and 5min, and using a noble fwh bittering to overall 30 ibu.
For the grain bill I was going to go a bit different. Probably 3lbs of Vienna, .75lb caramunich 60L, 4oz Acid malt, and enough Bo pilsner to 1.052. Mashing around 148F.
I’m looking for an early spring dark golden quaffable lager with nice easy Saaz presence.[/quote]
Dude, if we ever get together for beers, I know what we’re drinking! :cheers: Cheers.
[quote=“Ken Lenard”][quote=“brewingdan”]So funny. I am thinking of what lager to build next and am looking at something very similar to yours.
The hop bill will be the exact same but an ounce of Saaz at 10min and 5min, and using a noble fwh bittering to overall 30 ibu.
For the grain bill I was going to go a bit different. Probably 3lbs of Vienna, .75lb caramunich 60L, 4oz Acid malt, and enough Bo pilsner to 1.052. Mashing around 148F.
I’m looking for an early spring dark golden quaffable lager with nice easy Saaz presence.[/quote]
Dude, if we ever get together for beers, I know what we’re drinking! :cheers: Cheers.[/quote]
Oh yeah!!!
I almost moved to Chicago before moving here to Texas from DC.
I will use 50% distilled water (4 gallons mash, 4 gallons sparge) and add 2.5g of CaCl to the mash. Overall: Calcum will be 40, Masgnesium 6, Sodium 7, Choride 50, Sulfate 14, Bicarbonate 57. To offset the much-higher chloride (than sulfate), [/quote]
Good going Ken! I like it when recipe creators include actual ion recommendations instead of ‘add a tsp of pixie dust’ or such. Just to add to the thread, I recently obtained and confirmed the water profile of Jever, Germany. I show it below. This is intended for informational purposes and not a slight of the profile above. It just provides another profile that a brewer might consider.
Ca 38
Mg 5
Na 15
SO4 75
Cl 30
HCO3 0
An important qualifier for the profile above is that I’ve taken out the actual water’s high bicarbonate content (105 ppm) and reduced the calcium content from its actual 60 ppm level so that this water is more suited to brewing a Pils. A brewer in Jever might have historically pre-boiled that water and used an acid malt to bring the mash pH into a proper range. The profile above may still need a touch of acid in the mash, but the profile can easily be created if starting from RO or distilled water.
I will use 50% distilled water (4 gallons mash, 4 gallons sparge) and add 2.5g of CaCl to the mash. Overall: Calcum will be 40, Masgnesium 6, Sodium 7, Choride 50, Sulfate 14, Bicarbonate 57. To offset the much-higher chloride (than sulfate), [/quote]
Good going Ken! I like it when recipe creators include actual ion recommendations instead of ‘add a tsp of pixie dust’ or such. Just to add to the thread, I recently obtained and confirmed the water profile of Jever, Germany. I show it below. This is intended for informational purposes and not a slight of the profile above. It just provides another profile that a brewer might consider.
Ca 38
Mg 5
Na 15
SO4 75
Cl 30
HCO3 0
An important qualifier for the profile above is that I’ve taken out the actual water’s high bicarbonate content (105 ppm) and reduced the calcium content from its actual 60 ppm level so that this water is more suited to brewing a Pils. A brewer in Jever might have historically pre-boiled that water and used an acid malt to bring the mash pH into a proper range. The profile above may still need a touch of acid in the mash, but the profile can easily be created if starting from RO or distilled water.
Enjoy![/quote]
Martin: Thanks for that. Is it just me or is that SO4 number high for this style? Chloride is less than half of sulfate here which seems a little off the map just based and what I normally see for water profiles for this style. How would the rest of the recipe look with this higher SO4 number? Watch the bittering additions so that they don’t clash with the sulfate? The more I learn the better prepared I am and the better my beers become. Thanks again.
[quote=“brewingdan”]I toured Jever the last time I was in Germany and loved the history and brewery, but detested the beer; even fresh at the tour’s conclusion.
No hop aroma or yeast aroma, just bitter. Unbalanced bitter.
That high SO4 could be correct.[/quote]
Wow. Not sure when I had a Jever last but I know I’ve had some. This is interesting because every once in awhile I will be at a nice place with fresh draft German beer and it’s very good. Many times I go to a good liquor store and get anything from Europe, I notice that it’s either a little dated or it’s been mishandled or something. I have heard stories of people going to beer gardens in Prague or Munich and it’s total beer heaven. I’m trying to find the perfect recipe that can be homebrewed (and aligned with my tastebuds) where I have my own slice of beer heaven. I keep trying and I have more recipes lined up to try more.
I enjoy Jever Pils quite a bit. It clearly is starkly different from maltier German Pils and Boh Pils. It does dry quite a bit more at the finish. I would have to say that is the result of the high sulfate.
While I take AJ DeLange’s word that sulfate and noble hops ‘clash’, I’m not sure that is always true. To me, the pleasing taste of Jever may be testament that its not always true. One note regarding Jever is that it is now brewed with a stabilized iso-alpha extract. It will not skunk in the green bottle, no matter how long you leave it in the sun. Try it! So maybe the hops they use are compatible with the higher sulfate???
[quote=“mabrungard”]I enjoy Jever Pils quite a bit. It clearly is starkly different from maltier German Pils and Boh Pils. It does dry quite a bit more at the finish. I would have to say that is the result of the high sulfate.
While I take AJ DeLange’s word that sulfate and noble hops ‘clash’, I’m not sure that is always true. To me, the pleasing taste of Jever may be testament that its not always true. One note regarding Jever is that it is now brewed with a stabilized iso-alpha extract. It will not skunk in the green bottle, no matter how long you leave it in the sun. Try it! So maybe the hops they use are compatible with the higher sulfate???
It is time to try a Jever again.[/quote]
Funny, their tour starts in the old historic brewery and the tour guide had everyone smell hops thehad stored in this jar. Everyone said uhh and ahh, and I was thinking those are the oldest stalest hops I’ve ever smelled.
Now I would believe their production brewery uses extract, it’s very hi-tech.
It’s exactly 2 months from brew day and I finally got to tap this pils. I have my keezer set to 50F right now since I’m fermenting another lager currently, but what better way to really taste the beer for flaws and awesomeness.
I really really like it; by far my best pilsner to date. It has nice hop aroma, that slight whiff of lager yeast all German pils have in Germany, and perfect color/clarity. I think the aroma is spot on and would not cut back on the final additons whatsoever.
I’ll have to take my final critique once it’s down to 38-40F next week and when it’s at the magical “9 week” mark, but when I re-brew for summer, I’ll probably adjust my water similarity, but increase both SO4 and Cl to 40-60ppm. With this brew, I cut with 50% RO, which brough both ions down to 12ppm. Too low to really give the crispiness and firm impression of bitterness to this pils.
Right now, I would call it a really nice southern German pils, similar to Paulaner or other Bayern Pils. I’m going for the middle of the road German Pils, similar to Hachenburger Pilsner- my all time favorite.
My camera isn’t the best, but you can see that tight white head and crystal clear beer. And lacing follows to the last sip.
Very nice. I have a few lagering that will be coming up shortly. Those were after I finally got my water situation straightened out (I hope!) so time will tell. Once I get some of these on tap, I’ll post back. Cheers & nice work.
I would love to see how yours turn out. I believe you went with a higher Cl to SO4 ratio.[/quote]
After all the talk with people like AJ DeLange and Martin Brungard, I determined that you want little-to-no sulfate, little-to-no bicarbonate and sodium should be low as well. One of the beers sitting in secondary was 87% distilled water (7 of 8 gallons) with calcium chloride added to the mash and last night I made a sort of helles-festbier kind of thing with 50% RO water (which is not as soft as I originally thought it was) and 50% distilled with 4.5g of calcium chloride. My sulfate number was officially “1” and my ratio was off the charts. I have been cutting almost every beer I make with distilled to some extent in an attempt to lower bicarbonate. But I had made so many beers in late 2012 and early 2013 and I am working my way through those. The newly formulated beers are just getting kegged, cold and carbed and will be hitting the taps in the next couple of weeks. Cheers.
Had a little St. Paddy’s Day get together yesterday and had the German Pils on tap.
Of the 16 people that showed up, 12 were German and 2 were spouses that appreciate the German culture (or better appreciate the German culture being a spouse).
The German Pils was by far the overwhelming favorite and nearly drained. I was taken back how many pints were being poured. And if anyone has drunk with a German, if the beer isn’t up to their standards, they will drink bottled water.
Most were from either Bavaria or the Rhine region, so they liked that it was not as crisp or bitter as the northern pils.
I have a Helles in primary right now that I made some well thought out water adjusts to, so I’m really excited about hitting it up.
I’ve brewed a couple pilsners for summer while the weather is still cold, and recently did a BoPils for the Urquell clone competition this summer.
A German or Belgian pilsner is next… Germans seem fun, as I love Vienna malt.
My plan is to have 2.5 gallons of BoPils, 2.5 gallons of German Pils, German Pilsner/Vienna/Tett., and then a Belgian Pilsner, using only Franco-Belges pilsner malt and Styrian Goldings or something. It’ll be a fun tasting comparison.
Cheers.
