Well, I do both on a regular basis. I can knock out an extract brew in 3 and a half hours. That includes cleanup. And it’s easier to plan for. I can run out any day of the week at lunch and pick up a kit from the brew shop. When sat or sun morning comes I can get up early and be done before 11.
With all grain I like to get the ingredients the day of the brew. So I have to wait till 10 for the shop to open. Then I have to do the mash. Then the boil. After all is done I have the mash tun to clean. The spent grains go to the compost. Wash the tun. Then wash the kettle. I will usually not be done till 4 in the afternoon.
I’m not complaining because I enjoy it all. But if I want to knock one out on a sunday morning and be ready for band practice at 2:00, I like to go with the extract. And I am always happy with my extract brews.
Hmm. I think I’m at about 4.5 to 5 hours currently for my AG batches. That’s with an hour mash and hour boil. I know exactly where I could make improvements. But, I pick the day I have time to do it the way I know best right now. Eventually I’ll learn where I can shave off time. Either way, I’m really not in a rush when I brew, because if I rush I tend to forget things or make mistakes. A batch of bad beer isn’t worth the extra time it may take me, so I try to focus and do it right. As I get experience I’m sure I’ll improve. I’ve only just switched to AG and just made my third AG batch
I guess the point I am making is that both methods have their good use case. And both are fun, and produce good beer. So in the case where I want to make a beer and am crunched for time I can blast out an extract easier than an AG. Like, I am doing an extract porter this sunday because many friends are asking me for a bourbon porter. And so I have some time this weekend, but not enough for an all grain. And in a few weeks I will be doing an all grain 10 gallon batch that will need to be done as 2 5 gallon runs since I only have an 8 gallon kettle. So the sunday extract batch just fits in well.
So neither method should be shunned for any reason. Just because we have graduated to AG does not mean we can’t make extract from time to time.
[quote=“in_the_basement”]I guess the point I am making is that both methods have their good use case. And both are fun, and produce good beer. So in the case where I want to make a beer and am crunched for time I can blast out an extract easier than an AG. Like, I am doing an extract porter this sunday because many friends are asking me for a bourbon porter. And so I have some time this weekend, but not enough for an all grain. And in a few weeks I will be doing an all grain 10 gallon batch that will need to be done as 2 5 gallon runs since I only have an 8 gallon kettle. So the sunday extract batch just fits in well.
So neither method should be shunned for any reason. Just because we have graduated to AG does not mean we can’t make extract from time to time.[/quote]
I agree with you, both types of brewing have their place and you can make great beer with either. That said, it’s been years since I’ve made an extract brew. In my case, it’s about the cost. Extract is the most expensive part of a beer. A 1.5 kg can of LME goes for around 15 Euros, and 1 kg of DME is only a slightly better deal at 10 Euros. So a 1.050 OG beer would cost me 25-30 Euros for extract, which would be the most expensive ingredient. Grain on the other hand would only cost me 2-3 Euros. I’m not obsessed with saving money, and have no problem spending extra on special ingredients when I’m putting together a recipe, but it feels wrong to spend that much when I don’t have to.
[quote=“rebuiltcellars”][quote=“in_the_basement”]I guess the point I am making is that both methods have their good use case. And both are fun, and produce good beer. So in the case where I want to make a beer and am crunched for time I can blast out an extract easier than an AG. Like, I am doing an extract porter this sunday because many friends are asking me for a bourbon porter. And so I have some time this weekend, but not enough for an all grain. And in a few weeks I will be doing an all grain 10 gallon batch that will need to be done as 2 5 gallon runs since I only have an 8 gallon kettle. So the sunday extract batch just fits in well.
So neither method should be shunned for any reason. Just because we have graduated to AG does not mean we can’t make extract from time to time.[/quote]
I agree with you, both types of brewing have their place and you can make great beer with either. That said, it’s been years since I’ve made an extract brew. In my case, it’s about the cost. Extract is the most expensive part of a beer. A 1.5 kg can of LME goes for around 15 Euros, and 1 kg of DME is only a slightly better deal at 10 Euros. So a 1.050 OG beer would cost me 25-30 Euros for extract, which would be the most expensive ingredient. Grain on the other hand would only cost me 2-3 Euros. I’m not obsessed with saving money, and have no problem spending extra on special ingredients when I’m putting together a recipe, but it feels wrong to spend that much when I don’t have to.[/quote]
Makes sense. I’m on my 3rd batch of extract brew, so I’m trying to gauge how long each batch will last, etc. Once I have a better gauge on that, it may make sense to set aside a little more time to brew larger batches, saving time and money by brewing larger batches less often.
I’ve discovered that the extract kits will brew darker, which is no big deal to me, but if I can match colors better, it’s also something to consider.
How much of a difference is there between brewing with DME and LME? Are there ways to use all DME instead of mixing? and conversion tabels for x lbs DME = y lbs LME?
[quote=“ChuckVug”][quote=“rebuiltcellars”][quote=“in_the_basement”]I guess the point I am making is that both methods have their good use case. And both are fun, and produce good beer. So in the case where I want to make a beer and am crunched for time I can blast out an extract easier than an AG. Like, I am doing an extract porter this sunday because many friends are asking me for a bourbon porter. And so I have some time this weekend, but not enough for an all grain. And in a few weeks I will be doing an all grain 10 gallon batch that will need to be done as 2 5 gallon runs since I only have an 8 gallon kettle. So the sunday extract batch just fits in well.
So neither method should be shunned for any reason. Just because we have graduated to AG does not mean we can’t make extract from time to time.[/quote]
I agree with you, both types of brewing have their place and you can make great beer with either. That said, it’s been years since I’ve made an extract brew. In my case, it’s about the cost. Extract is the most expensive part of a beer. A 1.5 kg can of LME goes for around 15 Euros, and 1 kg of DME is only a slightly better deal at 10 Euros. So a 1.050 OG beer would cost me 25-30 Euros for extract, which would be the most expensive ingredient. Grain on the other hand would only cost me 2-3 Euros. I’m not obsessed with saving money, and have no problem spending extra on special ingredients when I’m putting together a recipe, but it feels wrong to spend that much when I don’t have to.[/quote]
Makes sense. I’m on my 3rd batch of extract brew, so I’m trying to gauge how long each batch will last, etc. Once I have a better gauge on that, it may make sense to set aside a little more time to brew larger batches, saving time and money by brewing larger batches less often.
I’ve discovered that the extract kits will brew darker, which is no big deal to me, but if I can match colors better, it’s also something to consider.
How much of a difference is there between brewing with DME and LME? Are there ways to use all DME instead of mixing? and conversion tabels for x lbs DME = y lbs LME?[/quote]
You can use DME and LME interchangeably, the main difference is LME has water in it. So for recipe formulation, 1 lb DME = 1.3 lbs LME. If you keep it totally sealed from humidity, DME stays fresh longer than LME. And supposedly DME can give you lighter colored beer as well, though I never brewed a 100% DME beer, so I can’t verify that.
Full-volume boils (versus partial volume boil + top-off water in the carboy) and late extract additions (reserving 2/3 of your malt extract until the last 15 minutes of the boil) can help lighten the color, but it still will never be as light-colored as the same recipe done as an all grain brew. That said, I’m in the “If it tastes great, who cares if it’s darker?” camp…
Good points. I tried adding 1/2 the LME at 45 minutes, but didn’t have much effect on lightening. Haven’t tried the full volume boil yet, but that may be a good thing to try as well. I’ll have to see if the DME makes a difference with my next batch.
Would you recommend still waiting until the last 15 to add 1/2 or 2/3 of DME?
I am with you, though. If the beer tastes good, I’m not overly concerned about the color.
Good points. I tried adding 1/2 the LME at 45 minutes, but didn’t have much effect on lightening. Haven’t tried the full volume boil yet, but that may be a good thing to try as well. I’ll have to see if the DME makes a difference with my next batch.
Would you recommend still waiting until the last 15 to add 1/2 or 2/3 of DME?
I am with you, though. If the beer tastes good, I’m not overly concerned about the color.[/quote]
Yes, waiting till the last 15 minutes to add half the DME would help you lighten the color.
And while taste should be the primary thing that determines if a beer is good, you have to admit that if it is a style that is know for being very pale, you want your beer to be that way too. Just like foam doesn’t do anything for flavor, but you miss it if it’s not there.
A 5-gallon batch can always be made on a kitchen stove if you have 4 stock pots and do not own a turkey fryer burner or other fancy equipment. I did this 3 times this year. It’s a bit of a pain but it works. (Normally I only brew 1.7-gallon batches but I made 5 gallons to serve at several beer festivals.)
I’m with you on all these points except for cost. I spend more than $1 per 12-oz bottle on average and I don’t care. It’s still cheaper than most good craft beer but that’s not why I do it. It tastes good and I really enjoy the process of all-grain brewing. It’s fun!
I’m with you on all these points except for cost. I spend more than $1 per 12-oz bottle on average and I don’t care. It’s still cheaper than most good craft beer but that’s not why I do it. It tastes good and I really enjoy the process of all-grain brewing. It’s fun![/quote]
Sorry I didn’t clarify. I meant cost as in, AG is less expensive the extract. It’s been awhile since I ran numbers but I recall AG being less than half the cost of extract once you are getting 50lbs sacks like I do. I agree it’s hard to compete on the commercial side with typical fare, but I think we have an edge against the 4 pack super premium and belgian type stuff (once the kettle, burner, chiller is depreciated :cheers:
I’m with you on all these points except for cost. I spend more than $1 per 12-oz bottle on average and I don’t care. It’s still cheaper than most good craft beer but that’s not why I do it. It tastes good and I really enjoy the process of all-grain brewing. It’s fun![/quote]
Sorry I didn’t clarify. I meant cost as in, AG is less expensive the extract. It’s been awhile since I ran numbers but I recall AG being less than half the cost of extract once you are getting 50lbs sacks like I do. I agree it’s hard to compete on the commercial side with typical fare, but I think we have an edge against the 4 pack super premium and belgian type stuff (once the kettle, burner, chiller is depreciated :cheers: [/quote]
I ran the numbers a few years ago, and if I don’t include my time as a cost, I can easily brew beer of any style for less than I can buy it. Of course, part of that is the outrageously high price of beer here is Finland, where the alcohol tax on a 33 cl can (just under 12 oz) is 50 Euro cents and VAT is 24% on top of that - never mind the cost of the beer itself.
And yes, like almost everything else, if you are willing to put the time and effort into it, you can make better at home than anything you can buy. That’s the real reason I do this.
I’m with you on all these points except for cost. I spend more than $1 per 12-oz bottle on average and I don’t care. It’s still cheaper than most good craft beer but that’s not why I do it. It tastes good and I really enjoy the process of all-grain brewing. It’s fun![/quote]
Sorry I didn’t clarify. I meant cost as in, AG is less expensive the extract. It’s been awhile since I ran numbers but I recall AG being less than half the cost of extract once you are getting 50lbs sacks like I do. I agree it’s hard to compete on the commercial side with typical fare, but I think we have an edge against the 4 pack super premium and belgian type stuff (once the kettle, burner, chiller is depreciated :cheers: [/quote]
I think I’ll probably break even at about 5-6 batches. About $200 invested in start up equipment, $30-35 for each extract kit puts me in around $350-400 after 6 kits. The stuff I’m brewing runs about $10 per six at the store, getting about 7 six packs/batch puts me around $420 “saved” after 6 batches. So it is probably more expensive than the all-grain, but it is still cheaper than buying craft brews every week.
Once I get better at the extract kits, I can start thinking more towards expanding to all-grain setup, kegging, etc., but for now, it’s nice to be able to say “I brewed this!” when your taste testers all love it.
