By my calcs 2oz of bittering hops at 10% AA, for a 10gal batch is only 37IBU. I tend to discount the bitterness of my late additions, especially anything under 15min.
While it is true that Centennial hops have a higher AA 9 - 12%, it is also true that they don’t store as well as other varieties,
[quote]STORAGE STABILITY: Fair to poor (lost over 50% of original alpha acids after
6 months storage at room temperature)[/quote]
My guess is the hops that were used were older (maybe the OP was unaware of this at purchase, it can be hard to tell); may not have been stored well before packaging or were poorly treated as some point in the process. Also, the stats given for the hops are average, sometime they fall above or below those averages.
Even if age isn’t a factor the IBU formulas leave much to be desired.
If the OP were to tell us precise detail about every aspect of the hops, how they were used, how were they boiled etc… it could probably be narrowed down to a relatively simplistic explanation.
If you’re going to compare IBUs then you need a recipe and standardize on one piece of brewing software to compare numbers; otherwise its a crap shoot.
[quote=“alphastanley”]
What was your target OG and real OG? Apparent attenuation?[/quote]
Target OG was 1.045, actual was 1.044. Not sure what apparent attenuation is or how to calculate it.
[quote=“grainbelt”]
I don’t know what your going for as far as bitterness and aroma but 3oz of hops for a 5g batch, or 6 oz for a 10g is not going to be a very hoppy beer at all, no matter what hop is used depending on intervals used and what your going for
AA’s can be quite spread out and defaults on programs need to always be adjusted.
You used centenial as bittering I have seen that AA from probably 7.5 or 8% to 12% on centenial, plus age will drop that down a little.[/quote]
I was basing my IBU target off a batch of Dead Ringer we brewed a couple months ago. That one came in at 76 IBUs (on the bullshit IBU scale) and it was a great IPA. I was thinking that 50 IBUs for this one would be bitter enough to notice, but not so bitter that it wouldn’t be “sessionable.”
What I got was really nothing…it’s just a plain ole’ wheat beer.
[quote=“dmtaylo2”]Are you using Tinseth? It is more accurate than Rager. Rager lies.
Might also be a salt thing. Did you use hard water or add any gypsum? A teaspoon or two of gypsum can help get your bitterness up where you expect it to be for IPA.[/quote]
Yes. We use RO water from the store and added various brew salts to bring the various numbers into range to match the flavor profile we were going for in Bru’n’Water.
What’s Tinseth? What’s Rager? Never heard of either of those.
Scratch that. Just went back and looked at my recipe for this beer on Beersmith. We only put 1oz of Centennial in at 60. The other at 15 and then a 2oz Cascade blast at 10. With still comes out to 49ish IBUs. Putting the full 2oz in at 60 brings it up to over 60 IBUs, which based on what I’m reading here, would probably have been a better choice for this beer.
[quote=“stompwampa”][quote=“alphastanley”]
What was your target OG and real OG? Apparent attenuation?[/quote]
Target OG was 1.045, actual was 1.044. Not sure what apparent attenuation is or how to calculate it.
[quote=“grainbelt”]
I don’t know what your going for as far as bitterness and aroma but 3oz of hops for a 5g batch, or 6 oz for a 10g is not going to be a very hoppy beer at all, no matter what hop is used depending on intervals used and what your going for
AA’s can be quite spread out and defaults on programs need to always be adjusted.
You used centenial as bittering I have seen that AA from probably 7.5 or 8% to 12% on centenial, plus age will drop that down a little.[/quote]
I was basing my IBU target off a batch of Dead Ringer we brewed a couple months ago. That one came in at 76 IBUs (on the bullshit IBU scale) and it was a great IPA. I was thinking that 50 IBUs for this one would be bitter enough to notice, but not so bitter that it wouldn’t be “sessionable.”
What I got was really nothing…it’s just a plain ole’ wheat beer.
[quote=“dmtaylo2”]Are you using Tinseth? It is more accurate than Rager. Rager lies.
Might also be a salt thing. Did you use hard water or add any gypsum? A teaspoon or two of gypsum can help get your bitterness up where you expect it to be for IPA.[/quote]
Yes. We use RO water from the store and added various brew salts to bring the various numbers into range to match the flavor profile we were going for in Bru’n’Water.
What’s Tinseth? What’s Rager? Never heard of either of those.
Scratch that. Just went back and looked at my recipe for this beer on Beersmith. We only put 1oz of Centennial in at 60. The other at 15 and then a 2oz Cascade blast at 10. With still comes out to 49ish IBUs. Putting the full 2oz in at 60 brings it up to over 60 IBUs, which based on what I’m reading here, would probably have been a better choice for this beer.[/quote]
4 oz on a 10g batch…you could easily quadruple that or more. But who know what your going for fo the final product
1oz at 60 is 19IBU, no way that comes out to 50IBU. Not for 10gal.
…and yes a bullshit scale. I have made hoppy/bitter beers, where technically by the scale it is a ZERO IBU beer. ANd was probably along the lines of a 40 IBU beer.
The type of hops your using will make a huge difference to. Want that IPA harsher bitter bite? THrow a tad of columbis in there
I’m using Beersmith. 9.7 AA Centennial clocks in at 21.25 IBU for 60 minutes, plus the IBUs pulled from the later additions, though in much smaller ammounts - all adds up to about 50 IBUs
2oz of Centennial at 9.7 AA for 60min is 42.3 IBU for 10 gallon.
[quote=“grainbelt”]…and yes a bullshit scale. I have made hoppy/bitter beers, where technically by the scale it is a ZERO IBU beer. ANd was probably along the lines of a 40 IBU beer.
The type of hops your using will make a huge difference to. Want that IPA harsher bitter bite? THrow a tad of columbis in there[/quote]
I guess the real IBU test is to just use a consistent measurement (in my case, Brewsmith) and cross reference with my own tastes.
In this case, if Brewsmith 50 IBUs is boring for me, I should shoot for 70 IBUs next time.
Granted, there are tons of other factors too…like water, grain bill, yeast, hop variety, etc etc.
So…for the bullshit IBU scale…when a commercial brewery says on their bottle XX IBUs, is that really just a pretend digit on an arbitrary scale, or do they have more sophisticated ways to measure this mystical number?
I’m using Beersmith. 9.7 AA Centennial clocks in at 21.25 IBU for 60 minutes, plus the IBUs pulled from the later additions, though in much smaller ammounts - all adds up to about 50 IBUs
2oz of Centennial at 9.7 AA for 60min is 42.3 IBU for 10 gallon.
[quote=“grainbelt”]…and yes a bullshit scale. I have made hoppy/bitter beers, where technically by the scale it is a ZERO IBU beer. ANd was probably along the lines of a 40 IBU beer.
The type of hops your using will make a huge difference to. Want that IPA harsher bitter bite? THrow a tad of columbis in there[/quote]
I guess the real IBU test is to just use a consistent measurement (in my case, Brewsmith) and cross reference with my own tastes.
In this case, if Brewsmith 50 IBUs is boring for me, I should shoot for 70 IBUs next time.
Granted, there are tons of other factors too…like water, grain bill, yeast, hop variety, etc etc.
So…for the bullshit IBU scale…when a commercial brewery says on their bottle XX IBUs, is that really just a pretend digit on an arbitrary scale, or do they have more sophisticated ways to measure this mystical number?[/quote]
it can be tested by a lab.
Beersmith you are able to set between raeger and tinseth so you need to know what your doing with that.
You also need to adjust your AA to the hops you get and if they are old you need to adjust.
50 ibu is comepletly different depending on what hops you use. You need to decide what you are giong for in the final product before anything. Then start working out a recipe and hop additions
SOunds like you need to experiment a little more.
[quote=“stompwampa”][quote=“alphastanley”]
What was your target OG and real OG? Apparent attenuation?[/quote]
Target OG was 1.045, actual was 1.044. Not sure what apparent attenuation is or how to calculate it.
[/quote]
Attenuation is a measure of how much sugar has been chomped up by the yeast during fermentation. Higher attenuation → less residual sugar, more residual alcohols → beer is usually drier; lower attenuation → more residual sugar, fewer residual alcohols → beer is sweeter and more full bodied.
Apparent attenuation is the percentage ratio between your original gravity and your final gravity:
… we call it apparent because your FG reading is done in a solution that contains various alcohols, which are less dense than water, and therefore make the attenuation appear to be higher than you actually achieved (you can correct for these things, but we can skip it for now).
If your beer has a higher attenuation, then the perception of hoppiness will be higher, especially bitterness. (Within five posts, someone will call BS, but it generally holds). On the other hand, lower attenuating beers will have a lower bitterness perception due to the body and residual sugars in solution.
A big beer (high OG) can skew this because even though the apparent attenuation is high, you still have a lot of residual sugar and various items in the body. This is why you can have a beer like Firestone Walker Double Jack come in at 100+ IBU but still come off as quite sweet and rich, versus Fuller’s ESB at ~42 IBU (and come across as forward-bitter).
Make sense?
Cheers.
That’s not BS… you make a realy dry beer and 20 ibus will seems like 50 or 60. What is actually tested by a lab may differ but it is perception to
[quote=“grainbelt”]
That’s not BS… you make a realy dry beer and 20 ibus will seems like 50 or 60. What is actually tested by a lab may differ but it is perception to[/quote]
I was hedging the “26 plato barleywine with 80% attenuation that still doesn’t taste bitter” post that someone would come up with.
I could have been more clear and said “If your beer has a higher attenuation relative to another beer in the same style with similar original gravity…”
These are two very different methods of calculating IBUs. Tinseth is most accurate. Rager tends to overestimate, e.g., Rager might say 50 IBUs while Tinseth might say 37 IBUs, and the actual measured value in a laboratory (the real value) might be something like 39 IBUs or whatever. Tinseth comes pretty close, Rager… sometimes yes, often no. Whatever software you might be using, check to see what method the software is using for IBU calculations. If it is Tinseth, then my point is irrelevant. If Rager or something else, then my point might be very relevant indeed.
[quote=“alphastanley”]
Attenuation is a measure of how much sugar has been chomped up by the yeast during fermentation. Higher attenuation → less residual sugar, more residual alcohols → beer is usually drier; lower attenuation → more residual sugar, fewer residual alcohols → beer is sweeter and more full bodied.
Apparent attenuation is the percentage ratio between your original gravity and your final gravity:
… we call it apparent because your FG reading is done in a solution that contains various alcohols, which are less dense than water, and therefore make the attenuation appear to be higher than you actually achieved (you can correct for these things, but we can skip it for now).
If your beer has a higher attenuation, then the perception of hoppiness will be higher, especially bitterness. (Within five posts, someone will call BS, but it generally holds). On the other hand, lower attenuating beers will have a lower bitterness perception due to the body and residual sugars in solution.
A big beer (high OG) can skew this because even though the apparent attenuation is high, you still have a lot of residual sugar and various items in the body. This is why you can have a beer like Firestone Walker Double Jack come in at 100+ IBU but still come off as quite sweet and rich, versus Fuller’s ESB at ~42 IBU (and come across as forward-bitter).
Make sense?
Cheers.[/quote]
Clear as mud. 
So my OG was 1.044, FG was 1.008. Based on the match, my AA is 3.6, right?
What’s the range for AA?
Nope, it’s 44-9=35/44*100 which gives you 79.5% apparent attenuation.
Ah…so disregard anything before the decimal.
there are free calculator all over online for this stuff. Just google homebrew calculators or whatever calculation you want Apparent attenuation, ABV, etc…
