Shifting gears here a little bit figured since I’m the OP, I can derail it right? Is there some sort of best practice for testing and adjusting kettle pH? Isn’t pH temp dependent? So is that 5.4 at room temp or kettle temp (which could be anything)? How do you know how much acid to add? Trial and error?
A decent rule of thumb is 1 ml 88% lactic acid will drop pH by 0.1 in a 5 gallon batch. So if your mash and sparge pH was 5.4, you could add 2 ml lactic acid to drop it to 5.2. Of course, the best way is to use a pH meter and measure at room temperature. In the past, I’ve used Bru’n water to estimate by figuring out for a full-volume mash, determine how much lactic acid to use to get pH to 5.2 and subtracted the amount I used in the mash and sparge water. It gets you pretty close.
I’ve never tried adjusting lower, but I’ve heard that heady topper has a kettle pH of 4.8-5.0.
I’m by no means a chemist but I always thought the amount of acid required to drop pH completely dependent on the alkalinity of the water. Is this calculation assuming distilled? I sometimes use all distilled to brew with but my water is pretty decent for brewing so a 50/50 mix of tap and distilled usually gives me the ability to match pretty much any profile in Brunwater. I assume if I’m brewing with other than distilled/RO I will either need some calculator or a pH meter.
My question was more along the lines of your 5.2 being ideal for an IPA, was a room temp measurement or at a specific temp? I am not too sure how much temperature would change that measurement.
You’re absolutely right. Like any approximation, it only works if you know it’s limitations. Like you mentioned, it matters what the alkalinity and buffering capability are. In this case, the wort has different properties than the starting water, whether it was tap or distilled. And since you’ve adjusted it to a certain mash ph, it should be pretty similar regardless of starting water.
But pH is also logarithmic, so the greater your adjustment, the more inaccurate it is. Here’s the thing, though… If you know your mash pH, you either have a pH meter or have water calculators, either of which will be more accurate. So it’s just kind of a rule of thumb if you’re feeling lazy and don’t want to measure or calculate it. I wouldn’t use it to adjust more than a few points, and if your starting pH isn’t around 5.5 or so.
In this case, pH 5.2 is at room temperature.
My pH meter requires that I get below 100*, yer home brew store will have 2 alternatives for acid to add to yer mash tun, well maybe the third,pH5.2. I also am toying with high AA hops to see how this affects the mash and all that follows…. Sneezles61
The opposite for me as well. 9 out of 10 commercial beers I buy are either no better, or worse than what I make. On the other hand I’m coming up on my 300th batch, so by now I better be making good beer or I’ve wasted a whole lot of time and money.
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Interesting…thanks!
I haven’t been brewing a lot these days. My recent beers have only been average. I have made a handful of beers over the years that were as good or better than commercially available stuff. Makes ya appreciate that much more when it happens.
I read somewhere that the pH swing is about .35 mash temp to room temp. My pH meter is calibrated at 77F or 25C so I take all of my reading at this temp. For my IPA’s I shoot for a reading of 5.55 -5.65 (5.25-5.35 at mash temps). Boil pH is where the magic happens with the hops so I try to stay real close to 5.5-5.6 (room temp measurement). Go back and read this thread, it has a lot of good info. Quest for the perfect IPA (PH) - #43 by mattnaik
I’d really like to avoid buying a pH meter if I can. Hope someone can help me with this calculation. So if my target room-temp pH for my mash and my sparge water is 5.4, and my pre-boil volume is usually around 7.25g, as a guesstimate, about how much 88% lactic should I add to get my kettle pH to 5.2? I know the pH scale isn’t linear so it isn’t as simple as setting up proportional relationship equation.
Based on your scenario 2ccs of lactic acid. (And based on Porkchops earlier post).
Of course someone else should chime in here with more experience, as I’ve used my ph meter, oh let’s see, once 
and if you’re doing it based on Bru’n water up to that point I think 2 ccs should get you there. However the consensus seemed to be that a _higher_kettle or boil ph might be better for IPAs…5.4 or so
I’m working my way through that quest for the perfect IPA(ph) thread again with some great into from Martin Brungard. 80 plus posts!
If you can post your water profile and grain bill, I can probably play around with it in Bru’n Water to get a little better estimation…
Working my way through that other thread, too. I don’t like it when my anecdotal observations aren’t aligned with someone with Martin’s experience, so I need to take a couple of steps back. Of course, there are so many variables at play here in wort, so maybe there’s something else that’s responsible for the improvement I’ve experienced. Possibly the difference is in the hops, where a lower kettle pH extracts less of the “harsh” compounds from American hops. That’s just a wild-azz guess, though.
Actually, maybe I’m just making this more complicated than it needs to be. If I just target 5.2 mash pH and 5.2 sparge pH, I should theoretically end up with 5.2 kettle pH. Correct?
Untill you start throwing in hops. So it seems you would have to get the ph lower post mash and then add hops hoping to get your final ph. To much work for me but I’m not troubled by the taste of my beer. I’m going to test mine next time anyway but doubt I’ll change anything. I m trying to simplify not complicate.
Though depends on what type of IPA you are going for.
From the other thread, here are the pH’s of a bunch of West Coast IPAs:
Ballast Point Dorado PH 4.63 FG 1.008 10%
Stone IPA 4.56 1.010 6.9%
Ballast Point Sculpin 4.65 1.009 7%
Snake River Pako’s IPA 4.85 1.010 6.8%
Odell’s IPA 4.7 1.012 7%
Caldera IPA 4.56 1.010 6.1%
Ska Modus Hoperandi 4.54 1.013 6.8%
Bear Republic Racer 5 4.5 1.014 7.5%
Deschutes Red Chair 4.4 1.016 6.2%
Green Flash West Coast IPA 4.66 1.010 7.3%
Anderson Valley Hop Ottin IPA 4.56 1.009 7%
Heady Topper has a pH of 4.3, according to a sample sent to Ward labs. Though I am a believer that the secret to “Northeast/Vermont” IPA’s are esters, not just hops. So maybe the pH plays a bigger part in ester production, particularly with Conan or similar English ale yeasts.
Not sure if its the yeast that gets it there or a downwardly-adjusted boil pH.
Help us Obi-Wan @mabrungard, you’re our only hope.
This is how it worked out on my last IPA brewed early December. 5.2 mash, 5.2 FR, 5.2 preboil kettle pH. I was actually shooting for 5.4 mash but missed it. Realized later i should have taken a pH of my water. It had dropped since my last reading. My well water seems to drop a few points in the winter. So based on prior experience with wy1272 my finished beer pH should be 4.3. Did not take a reading when I kegged the first 5 gals. I plan on putting it on tap later today.
I suppose it wouldn’t be too difficult to measure this, as most of these west-coast IPAs are pretty much going to be using Chico. I might just have to split a batch between some different yeasts and measure mash, kettle, and post-fermentation pH on these to see how much is being contributed by various yeasts.
That happens remarkably seldom. Most commercial brewers can’t afford to dump a batch.
I would agree. They are much more likely to blend it with another batch for consistency. Although dumping is not out of the question but is a last resort. I hate dumping 5gal-10gal batches… Can you imagine dumping 15bbl+!!!
