Dry Yeast Starter?

b_holt · January 30, 2015, 7:18pm

I read somewhere that you wouldn’t create a starter for dry yeast (which I did on my latest brew). Is that because it’s unnecessary or because it’s bad? Or did the person posting that comment not really know what they were talking about? Thanks in advance.

templar · January 30, 2015, 7:30pm

I think it’s more that it’s not really necessary. Most people rehydrate or just sprinkle the yeast on the wort. No big deal either way, you’ll be fine.

dmtaylo2 · January 30, 2015, 7:31pm

It’s just not necessary. It’s one of the big advantages of dry yeast. Sprinkle it on top and you’re done.

loopie_beer · January 30, 2015, 7:57pm

From my understanding you do NOT want to create a starter with dry yeast. Dry yeast is packaged with yeast nutrients and these are depleted when you Mae a starter.

flars · January 30, 2015, 7:59pm

You can make a starter with dry yeast. You would do it if the pack of yeast doesn’t have sufficient cells to ferment out the beer you are making. The dry yeast must be properly rehydrated before pitching it into the starter wort or you may end up with fewer cells than you started with. Do not use RO or distilled water for the rehydration. Osmotic pressure, due to the lack of minerals in RO and distilled water, will damage the cell walls of the dry yeast.
Making a starter with dry yeast basically converts the dry yeast to a liquid yeast. Some of the dry yeast properties will be lost and the yeast must be worked with the same as you would liquid yeast.

b_holt · January 30, 2015, 8:17pm

Thanks for all the replies. This is my 4th brew ever with the previous 3 coming about a year ago. I had problems with the fermentation on 2 of them and attributed those problems (right or wrong) to not enough yeast cells. At any rate, what’s done is done, so we’ll know in a couple of weeks whether it was good or bad.

I will say that the initial fermentation was rocking and pushed the blowoff out.

denny · January 30, 2015, 9:02pm

It’s both unnecessary and bad. It’s bad because you use up the nutrient reserves in the dry yeast in the starter.

edtude · January 31, 2015, 2:50pm

Even for Lagers and higher OG beers you should still not create a starter? I will be brewing a Lager and I ordered an extra packet of the dry yeast and we will also be brewing an IPA with an OG of 1.075 and we only have one pack of yeast for that one. You still do not recommend a starter?

flars · January 31, 2015, 3:37pm

A lot of people will say the reason you should not make a starter with dry yeast is the economics, it’s cheap just use two or more packs. Doesn’t address the issue when you only have one pack and need more cells than are in the package.

Others say you can’t do it because you change the properties built into the dry yeast. Yes, you do change the properties. According to Fermentis, making a starter, is basically changing the dry yeast to liquid yeast.
Saying you can not make a starter with dry yeast is like saying you can not harvest US-05 from your fermentor for reuse. The beer you brewed was a five gallon starter to have enough yeast for a very high gravity beer you will be brewing next.

Rehydration, besides not using distilled or RO water, has a time factor also.

http://www.brewwithfermentis.com/tips-t ... hydration/

denny · January 31, 2015, 4:59pm

Nope. For one thing, one pack, assuming it’s reasonably fresh, will be fine at 1.075. If it’s higher gravity, pitch more packs.

old_guy · January 31, 2015, 6:23pm

Question: If you made a starter with dry yeast, then added yeast nutrient to your mini-wort boil, wouldn’t that add back the lost nutrients?

denny · January 31, 2015, 6:29pm

Yeah, but again it would only be effective in the starter. I guess if you added it to the wort in your batch it might be a wash, but I really don’t know.

old_guy · January 31, 2015, 6:36pm

Thanks Denny, I don’t use a lot of dry yeast, but I do add nutrient to my liquid starters and at the end of my batch boil.

denny · January 31, 2015, 7:42pm

Yeah, I do the same. Can’t say it makes much difference, but it’s cheap insurance.

edtude · February 3, 2015, 7:17pm

Just as a follow up, Sunday we brewed two batches of beer an IPA with an anticipated OG of 1.075, actual was 1.072 and a lager which had an OG of 1.042. We did a starter for the IPA from a single pack of dry yeast -1500ml with 1.5 cups of DME no stir plate- and two packs of dry yeast for the lager no starter. Both beers were fermenting quite well within 24 hours and continue to do well. I was very surprised and happy with how well the lager took off and not sure that I will do any different in the future. Thanks Denny Dave and flars for your input.