Today I mashed my old ale at 4.9. Wow that’s a record low for me. did this cause my low Efficiency of 78%(normally 85%) and why would it be so low?
The recipe was a 6 gallon batch with 3.2oz pale chocolate malt some english dark/medium crystals and 1 pound of Amber malt and the base was MAris Otter (Crisp) SRM 17. Ive even brewed beers very similar to this getting a mash PH of 5.4 off the bat without salts. the only difference i see is the use of Amber malt. Perhaps Amber malt does this?
My ATC PH meter was properly calibrated. My well water is really soft with an alkilinty of 55 and a PH of 6 I added 7.2grams of Baking soda to my mash and 5 grams of chalk, which for the record did nothing to the PH at all. My mash was 80minutes at 148f. I did nothing out of the norm that I could think of to get such a low PH. I tasted the wort and it tasted great no astringent or salty flavors.
So i am wondering if a 4.9 will throw off someones efficiency and any suggestions on how to increase the ph without adding more baking soda or Chalk and maybe a clue as to why it was 4.9 in the first place.
Your result with the chalk is typical. Chalk does not work at ALL!!! I’ve had very skilled homebrewers and commercial brewers provide me with results that confirm that chalk does not work in the mash when just added as a dry mineral addition.
For chalk to work, it requires a full dissolution into water with CO2 pressure in the headspace for several days to fully dissolve the chalk into its ionic form. When added dry, it just goes to the bottom of the tun.
Sorry to hear about the mash problem. The beer will still be fine, it may be a little more tart and thinner than you intended, but it will be drinkable.
The ATC function DOES NOT correct for the chemical change that temperature causes on mash pH. It only corrects the response of the probe. You are very much better off with cooling the sample to room temp before measuring pH. In addition, sticking the probe into hot wort is very hard on the probe and shortens its life.
[quote=“mabrungard”]Your result with the chalk is typical. Chalk does not work at ALL!!! I’ve had very skilled homebrewers and commercial brewers provide me with results that confirm that chalk does not work in the mash when just added as a dry mineral addition.
For chalk to work, it requires a full dissolution into water with CO2 pressure in the headspace for several days to fully dissolve the chalk into its ionic form. When added dry, it just goes to the bottom of the tun.
Sorry to hear about the mash problem. The beer will still be fine, it may be a little more tart and thinner than you intended, but it will be drinkable.
The ATC function DOES NOT correct for the chemical change that temperature causes on mash pH. It only corrects the response of the probe. You are very much better off with cooling the sample to room temp before measuring pH. In addition, sticking the probe into hot wort is very hard on the probe and shortens its life.[/quote]
Thanks for the reply! but what could I raise the ph with besides baking soda. i dont want to over load it with Sodium. What do you think about one of the responses above for using pickling lime (calcium hydroxide) and also what are your thoughts about the efficiency issue? could 4.9 throw it off?
[quote=“mabrungard”]Your result with the chalk is typical. Chalk does not work at ALL!!! I’ve had very skilled homebrewers and commercial brewers provide me with results that confirm that chalk does not work in the mash when just added as a dry mineral addition.
For chalk to work, it requires a full dissolution into water with CO2 pressure in the headspace for several days to fully dissolve the chalk into its ionic form. When added dry, it just goes to the bottom of the tun.
Sorry to hear about the mash problem. The beer will still be fine, it may be a little more tart and thinner than you intended, but it will be drinkable.
The ATC function DOES NOT correct for the chemical change that temperature causes on mash pH. It only corrects the response of the probe. You are very much better off with cooling the sample to room temp before measuring pH. In addition, sticking the probe into hot wort is very hard on the probe and shortens its life.[/quote]
Thanks for the reply! but what could I raise the ph with besides baking soda. i dont want to over load it with Sodium. What do you think about one of the responses above for using pickling lime (calcium hydroxide) and also what are your thoughts about the efficiency issue? could 4.9 throw it off?
Pickling lime is very reliable for adding alkalinity and calcium. Its problem is that when dealing with homebrewing sized batches, the amount of lime needed is typically quite small. You have to calculate and weigh it out carefully. Adding it with a teaspoon or something like that is a recipe for disaster. Having a scale that can read out at 0.1 gram increments is a must when dealing with homebrew sized batches.
I don’t really think that pH has a huge effect on efficiency. Efficiency is more affected by crush, mashing temperatures, mashing duration, and sparging duration.
I normaly use 4 x 1 liter soda stream bottles to solve chalk in water. With 4 liters of carbonated water I can solve about 4 gram of chalk. I then mix all water the evening before brewday. I normaly do not have any unsolved chalk. I prepare the chalk water a couple of days before brewday.
As the other guys mentioned, because you are taking a reading at elevated temperature then your pH is going to shift as well. A ‘room temp’ mash pH of 5.2 reads as 4.8-4.9 at mash temp. There is some disagreement and not much study in elevated temperature mash pH measurements, so it is always recommended to take your measurement at room temperature.
Based on this, you were maybe a little on the low side (5.1-5.2), but probably still in an acceptable range for mashing.
I have found chalk to be moderately effective at low levels (going into soft water), but it’s definitely worthless beyond a certain point unless you are dissolving with CO2 first.
Even with exceptionally dark beers I can get the pH in the right range with a moderate amount of chalk and baking soda, it doesn’t take as much as you would think. The best thing you can do is continue to take accurate measurements and get a feel for what range you can effect with the materials available to you.
Agree on the pickling lime. Low Ph can definitely affect yield. We had a batch that wasn’t mashing once. Ph was low. Ran to the store, grabbed pickling lime for a buck or two, and a couple of pinches saved the day. Be careful though - hydroxide is the classic chem class strong base. A little dab’ll do you. In that case the low Ph wasn’t a mystery - my brew partner had added a large amount of Burton salts to the mash. Don’t ask me why.
