White Labs WLP820 Oktoberfest/Marzen

What is everybody’s thoughts on this yeast? I normally use the Wyeast strain, but my LHBS was out (surprise, surprise), seems that I am not the only one trying to do an Oktoberfest that is ready in, well, October.

Anyhow, I am reading mixed reviews on this strain. Everything from: it’s garbage, to it’s a slow stater, to a poor performer and it’s staller, to the best yeast since S. eubanyanus and S. cerevisiae decided to make a love child.

I brewed my typical Marzen (6 gallon batch) hit my post boil OG and pitched a 3L starter at 50 degrees into well oxygenated wort.

Is this a wait for it and it will eventually do its thing or have other had troubling experiences from this strain?

Complete and utter garbage. Any other lager yeast in the universe is better than WLP820 in every way.

Not sure what to use? Try Wyeast 2206. Best lager yeast I’ve ever used. It’s said to be equivalent to WLP820 but this is SO NOT TRUE!!!

WLP830 and even the dry W-34/70 are also great. Wyeast 2308 isn’t too shabby either.

Too late for w-34? I pitched last night at 50*.

What did you find to be the problem(s) with it?

Very long lag time, very poor attenuation.

It might turn out fine. But it might not.

Thanks Dave, I typically use Wyeast 2633 and have been rather pleased with the results. However, my LHBS ran out of that strain and only had the White Labs. I made a starter as recommended from Brewer’s Friend, but decided to drive myself nuts and google WLP820. And like I said, the reviews were not ecstatic. In fact, the majority stated what you did earlier that it is sllllloooooooooooooooooooow.

Oh well. Live and learn.

I brewed a Vienna lager with WLP820 and won multiple awards with it. It finished quickly and had a nice clean but malty profile. I realize Dave’s experience with this has been different since he’s a staunch evangelist against it but I have had very good experience with it.

Have you tried it since the one time you had a bad experience with it Dave? Maybe you had a bad batch?

I thought I gave it a pretty fair chance. I used it for a string of 5 lagers in 2006 and 2007. First batch, a pilsner, I thought was mediocre, but I do recall it scored a silver or bronze in a local competition. But I stand by my experience that it tasted very mediocre to my palate. Next was a Dortmunder. That one was a dumper – acetaldehyde, if memory serves. Bought a new pack for the third batch, a doppelbock. This one I personally liked, but the finishing gravity was way high at 1.026 – fine with me, for a guy who doesn’t mind a sweetish beer, but it scored poorly in competition. Next I tried another Dort. It was fine, it was okay, but it didn’t taste like a Dort. More like a deep gold / light orange ale. Odd, but okay. Finally, bought another pack to make an Oktoberfest. Not a dumper, but again, very mediocre, finishing gravity at 1.019, which is odd considering the 151 F mash temperature.

My experience: You probably won’t hate your beers brewed with WLP820… but you won’t love them either. You could do a lot better with any other yeast. I know I have.

@mattnaik, do you recall what temp you pitched at?

I have read that people had a lot of success pitching at 70* and then dropping it to 50*.

I just couldn’t bring myself to do that. I pitched at 50*. I know krausen is not the end all indicator for an active fermentation, but after nearly 48 hours this is not showing many signs of life.

Been 48 hours? Get some W-34/70 in there. Maybe the two yeasts can work together then.

Thanks Dave. Yeah I think I am going to stop by the brew store on the way home…

[quote=“andymag”]

I have read that people had a lot of success pitching at 70* and then dropping it to 50*.

I just couldn’t bring myself to do that. I pitched at 50*. I know krausen is not the end all indicator for an active fermentation, but after nearly 48 hours this is not showing many signs of life.[/quote]

Pitching at 70* then dropping will produce a lot of diacetyl with many lager yeasts. If you do that, you need to aggressively raise the temp back up a few days into the ferment.

Oddly enough, I go to the LHBS and get two packages of dry yeast, head home, and to my surprise there is 3" of Krausen sitting on top of the wort. I guess I will pop the yeast in the fridge and do another lager after this one wraps up.

Thanks for the input all.

:cheers:

[quote=“andymag”]Oddly enough, I go to the LHBS and get two packages of dry yeast, head home, and to my surprise there is 3" of Krausen sitting on top of the wort. I guess I will pop the yeast in the fridge and do another lager after this one wraps up.

Thanks for the input all.

:cheers: [/quote]

Sorry for the late response but yes this was also my experience. I pitched and fermented at 50* and didn’t see krausen for about 48 hours. This has been my experience with just about every lager yeast I’ve ever used on first pitch. Second gen tends to be a much quicker starter.

With a big pitch of lager yeast (besides the WLP820), I have typically seen fermentation begin within about 18 hours. 24-36 hours would be common as well and should be okay. But 48-60 hours is potentially asking for trouble IMHO. This goes for any beer, ales or lagers.

Have to agree with Dave on this one, but obviously a matter of taste and probably your malt bill. I am a die-hard WY2206 or WY2124 person myself for anything in the German lager world. I actually like 2124 better for O’fest beers and pale lagers (Helles and 100% Vienna Malt beers) and use 2206 for Bocks and Dopplebocks. They are both awesome though.

PLOT TWIST

Okay, so I am using an automated Fermostat for my temp controller. I had the temp set at 50F and had that schedule to go for 10 days, next I would check the gravity, then let it rise to 65 for a DA rest. Problem, last Monday, or 7 days into my fermentation, I lost power. I did not think to check my Fermostat and went about my business. Last night, I saw that the Fermostat rest and my temp was now 68*. I quickly re-adjusted it and got the temp back down to 50* and tonight I plan on checking the gravity and if it’s at its terminal gravity, I will slowly drop down to 34* and lager for 6-7 weeks.

Does anyone think this is an issue? As in I probably made and ale with lager yeast? I imagine that the freerise from 50* to 68* probably took a few days, so it could be a quasi DA rest that was done a little sooner then planned.

If however, my gravity is still not at its terminal numbers, should I leave it at 50 for a few more days than rise again to finish out?

I am mainly concerned with too many off flavors.

I would probably have just left it at 68* at that point. Did you check gravity at all? The majority of the esters, phenols and other undesirable compounds are produced in the first few days with most yeasts. Having the temp raise, then lower may have put the yeast to bed. I would check gravity and taste.

Thanks Pietro, I did not check the gravity. I Got in from work late and did not get a chance to, but I think you’re right, I should have left it alone at 68*. I am hoping today when I check that I am at the terminal gravity.

I managed to get a gravity reading and saw it was down to 1.012, so I am not going to re-warm it up for a DA rest. I presume my inadvertent natural rise in the temp took care of that. Now I am going to let it drop 2* a day until I am at 32*, then I will lager for five weeks.

Thanks all for the input. Going forward, I am going to use my trusted Wyeast source.

:cheers:

Please keep us updated on how this turns out. I think you will be pleasantly surprised and this yeast has just gotten a bad name.