White IPA

[mschoeffler]

Having just done a Belgian IPA, I am setting my sights on a white IPA. Whitewater had too much simcoe (not my thing), Anchorage’s Galaxy seems a bit too complicated, but Boulevard/Deschutes collaboration #2 is about right. After reading on their website how much the enjoy helping the home brewer, I sent an email and have heard nothing. Here’s what I have in mind:

50:50 pilsener/wheat to 1.070
1oz centennial for 60
0.75 cascade and 0.75 citra (or Amarillo) for 20
O.5 cascade and 0.5 citra/Amarillo for 5
Total IBUs 60
Orange peel/coriander at flameout
Lemongrass in secondary
Hoegarden or forbidden fruit yeast

What do you think?

[beermebeavis]

I think White IPA makes alot more sense than BIPA (Black IPA). At least white is ‘pale.’ Black aint. So the name don’t make no sense. There’s something wrong and unAmerican about it.

With that said, I don’t think you’ll be able to taste the orange & spices - it would have to be ungodly amount of such ingredients to override the hop bitterness/flavor in an IPA and to even be detectable.

However, with THAT said, I did make a Ginger/Orange ‘zest’ IPA several years ago that was a crowd pleaser. I used vodka to extract the ginger/orange flavors, then added that liqour to the finished keg, to taste.

It’s a neat idea. Good luck.

[mphoule]

[quote=“beermebeavis”]I think White IPA makes alot more sense than BIPA (Black IPA). At least white is ‘pale.’ Black aint. So the name don’t make no sense. There’s something wrong and unAmerican about it.
[/quote]

There is nothing “unAmerican” about black IPAs just bending styles and pushing limits. Seams American to me. That said, I am interested in your ginger, orange peel tincture. How much did your gravity change with the keg addition and why not add it to the boil (other than to add it in a controlled amount)?

[keinathb]

It looks like your recipe is along the lines of the Boulevard/Deschutes version. If you are looking to clone the beer you can go to the Deschutes website. They post a homebrew recipe version where they give you the ingredients and leave it up to you to figure out the rest (http://www.deschutesbrewery.com/recipe/ … no-2-clone)

Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

-BK

[beermebeavis]

…well, it doesn’t seem American to me. It just seems as if someone was trying to be clever and that’s the best they could come up with.

As far as my orange & ginger IPA potion, I shaved orange zest from several oranges and sliced thin several fresh ginger roots into a mason jar filled with vodka (and orange liquor if my memory serves). Over several weeks, I tasted/smelled the potion and adjusted amts of ginger/orange to obtain the right balance. After the IPA was kegged, I strained the potion thru coffee filter into a second mason jar and then added to keg. Why not just add it to the boil? I find that this method is more flavor/aroma-controllable byfar, and that you will lose alotta aroma from ingredients added to boil.

[keinathb]

Inspired by this thread I went ahead and brewed a white ipa last week. I based it off the Deschutes/Boulevard beer (recipe below.) The recipe calls for lemon grass and sage in the secondary. I was planning on “dry spicing” the beer in the keg and sampling until I get the desired flavor. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this and whether there is a good starting point for how much of each to use. I was thinking about 0.5 oz each but personally have no experience with either spice. The other option is to get a growler of a belgian wit and do some experimentation myself.

I was also wondering if anyone had a good suggestion for where to find fresh lemongrass and sage. Farmers market? Asian grocery store?

Thanks.

• BK

OG: 1.070
IBU: 51
SRM: 5

MALT
60% Belgian Pils
20% German Wheat
10% Flaked Oats
10% Flaked Wheat

HOPS
20 IBU Bravo - 60 min
6 IBU Cascade - 15 min
10 IBU Cent. - 15 min
15 IBU Citra - 15 min

Cascade, Cent., Citra, corriander, sweet orange peel at flameout

Cooled wort to 62F and pitched 2 L decanted stirplate of Wyeast 3944 and let rise to 66F for 3 days, then to 70F.

Dry Hop with Cascade, Cent., Citra, lemongrass, and sage

[shadetree]

[quote=“keinathb”]I was planning on “dry spicing” the beer in the keg and sampling until I get the desired flavor. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this and whether there is a good starting point for how much of each to use.[/quote]Haven’t done it with lemongrass or sage, but I dry-gingered a Saison with a thumb of fresh ginger, peeled and sliced, and started sampling after a couple of days. IIRC, it took about a week to hit the right level. Use less then you think you’ll need and check often - you can always let it sit longer if need be but you can’t take it out once it’s infused.

[dobe12]

It’s not an IPA, but I just kegged a Belgian Witbier that I used 50/50 pils and wheat, but instead of malted wheat I used flaked wheat. That much flaked wheat gave it a very nice cloudy white beer. So if you’re looking for cloudy white, add a nice dose of flaked wheat. A few lbs at least.

[ickyfoot]

It’s funny to me to suggest that something originating in England is somehow American enough to be made “unAmerican” by deviating from accepted standards. Or, that here in melting-pot land it’s somehow antithetical to meld styles/dispense with custom and do things a new way .

That said, I do agree that BIPA is an oxymoron. IBA would make more sense.

[dobe12]

IPA originated in England. BIPA originated in America. Who cares about “deviating from accepted standards”. His point was that trying something different, going against the grain is what our country was created on and is known for. People get to caught up on “accepted standards” and names. Who cares? Brew what you like and call it whatever you want. If it tastes good to you… who cares what someone else may think regardless of whether it fits someone’s “accepted standards”.

These BIPA discussions always crack me up. It’s a name. That is all. Maybe an oxymoron, but they’re all over the English language. Jumbo Shrimp!

[s_scoggin]

[quote=“dobe12”]IPA originated in England. BIPA originated in America. Who cares about “deviating from accepted standards”. His point was that trying something different, going against the grain is what our country was created on and is known for. People get to caught up on “accepted standards” and names. Who cares? Brew what you like and call it whatever you want. If it tastes good to you… who cares what someone else may think regardless of whether it fits someone’s “accepted standards”.

These BIPA discussions always crack me up. It’s a name. That is all. Maybe an oxymoron, but they’re all over the English language. Jumbo Shrimp![/quote]

agreed. nothing wrong with experimenting. if you like it, make it. i also find it amusing how much people care about things like this. IMO, the essence of homebrewing is freedom of experimentation. there aren’t set guidelines for styles like these, so the name really shouldn’t matter

[dobe12]

I’ll add that I have a Black IPA on tap right now at home and it is fantastic!
Hopped with Cascade, Centennial and Citra. My mouth is literally watering as I type this.

[ickyfoot]

Oh, I couldn’t care less if people call it BIPA or IBA or Extra Special Black Bitter Beer or whatever they want. The main point of my post was that America is all about establishing its own traditions, merging various cultural influences, etc., for better and worse, so I don’t see how a BIPA, as a name or a style, is somehow “unAmerican.” Quite the opposite, really.

I do think Black Pale is funny and oxymoronic (see, I knowingly use abuse words, too!), though, and that jumbo shrimp isn’t (because shrimp is a noun here, not an adjective). Of course, plenty of other examples exist that abuse language far more than BIPA.

Not that my opinion amounts to squat in the grand scheme of things.

:cheers:

[keinathb]

Thanks Shadetree. I think I am going to do just what you said. I do have some concerns about using too little though and starting to extract undesirable things like tannins and other vegetable flavors. My reasoning here is from experience over steeping tea (although this is at elevated temps) and dry hopping too long. I think ultimately the reason for using the sage and lemongrass is to enhance the aromatics and I am unsure if I want too much flavor additions from these components. I think I will just try to get my hands on the two, smell and steep separately in small quantities and then just guess at the amounts.

While I enjoy the spirited debate about what makes a style, and what people should call specific styles, I would appreciate if responses were focused on the recipe formulation and ingredients. I still haven’t sourced the ingredients yet. Any suggestions? I am going to try Whole Foods and Trader Joes this afternoon.

Also, I would love to hear from the original poster about their results with this beer or if anyone has tried the Deschutes/Boulevard beer and what they think about the sage and lemongrass components.

Thanks.
-BK

[ickyfoot]

[quote]I still haven’t sourced the ingredients yet. Any suggestions? I am going to try Whole Foods and Trader Joes this afternoon.[/quote]I’d say either of those would work, with a slight preference for Whole Foods. I always find they have a wide selection of very high quality produce. Joe’s isn’t as great on the selection front IME. Even better would be a farmer’s market if they have everything.

For the coriander are you going with roots or seeds? If seeds, are you going to crush them?

[shadetree]

[quote=“keinathb”]I still haven’t sourced the ingredients yet.[/quote]Asian store for the lemon grass and the coriander (be sure to buy Indian coriander, recognizable by its football shape versus American coriander which is round). Use lemon grass root/bulb (the white part), not the leaf.

[mschoeffler]

I appreciate this thread being resurrected since my initial post. I have received an email from Boulevard about a month ago stating that the brewers are good at brewing, not emailing, and will get to my question in due time. Of course, that was a month ago. I am planning on going ahead with this next month and my only lingering question to ask of the greater brewing community involves the late hops and aromatic herbs. It seems like cascade and citra later than 10min would overwhelm the orange peel/corriander/sage/lemongrass. Should I stop with the hops at 20min or 10min and just rely on the herbs/yeast for aromatics?

[mschoeffler]

Alright, I have another question after looking back on the original specs from the brewery. FG 1.016-1.018 seems a bit high to me. I may use pilsener/wheat to 1.060 and sugar to get to 1.070…thin it out a bit. Any thoughts?

[keinathb]

I brewed the recipe that I listed previously a few weeks ago. The recipe from Boulevard was given on another forum but I can’t seem to find the link at the moment. The recipe is below. I used the hop schedule below and used BCS as a guideline for coriander and sweet orange additions. For both, I added 0.4 oz/5 gallons. I sourced the lemongrass and sage at the local Asian farmer’s market. I doctored a few 12 oz samples of Allagash White to get an idea of how much to add. (Thanks again to shadetree because if I didn’t have his advice I wouldn’t have had any idea how to use the lemon grass.) The fresh sage was extremely aromatic but the lemon grass did not come through in the samples at similar weights. I ended up settling on 0.5 oz of sage and close to 2 oz of lemon grass for “dry herbing.” I checked frequently and ended up leaving it in the keg for about 36 hours. I probably could’ve left it longer but was worried about the sage becoming too dominant.
Overall the beer is quite nice but in my opinion there seems to be too much going on. Perhaps this will mellow in a week or two. I am not a huge fan of belgian ipas and feel that the yeast phenolics often clash with the hops. If I were to brew it again, I would probably use the forbidden fruit instead of the witbier yeast strain. I also fermented on the low side (62F) which may favor the phenolics over the fruity esters described in the beer reviews.
Also, note that the recipe below has a finishing gravity of 3.4 plato which is closer to what I got (1.070 og to 1.012 fg.) I mashed low (149F for 90 min) and had no trouble getting the attenuation with a proper starter. I don’t think you need to add sugar as long as you mash at a low temp.
Good luck and let us know how it comes out.
-BK
Our Collaboration #2 White India Pale Ale featured collaborative
brewing efforts with Deschutes Brewery of Bend, OR. While I would love
to tell you that this special beer will be made again, at this time
there are no plans to do second release.

Here’s a bit of info about the recipe for the White I.P.A. I’ll throw
you some percentages for the grain bill and some IBUs from the hop
bill.

Malt %
Pilsner 57.1
Wheat 15.5
Malted Wheat 25.0
Flaked Oats 2.4
We also increased Plato by .5 degrees with a dextrose addition in the kettle

Hops (IBU amounts)
Bravo 21 10 min after beginning of boil
Citra 11.6
Cascade 9
Centennial 8 these three at 65 after
Citra 3
Cascade 1.7
Centennial 2.6 these three at flameout

Dry Hopping/Spices
Citra .113 kg/bbl
Cascade .159 kg/bbl
Centennial .113 kg/bbl
Lemongrass
Sage

Ferment with Belgian yeast at 21 C
Starting Plato should be 17 and finishing should be 3.4

[mschoeffler]

Did this on Memorial Day and so far, so good.

7lbs weyermann pilsener
5lbs wheat malt
2lbs wheat flakes

0.75oz Centennial at 60min
1oz Citra at 20min
1oz Cascade at 20min
1oz Citra at FO
1oz Cascade at FO
1oz corriander at FO
zest of 4 sweet oranges at FO

Forbidden Fruit @ 68, ramp up after 48 hours
OG 1.070
IBUs 60

Smells wonderful!
I decided against the sage and lemongrass based upon the above comments. I can always add it later. Will post results in 2-3 weeks.