I’m loving the hop flavors from a big steep or whirlpool addition, but it seems that these aromas and flavors fade really quickly, leaving only bitterness. After bottle condition, I have maybe 2-3 weeks to drink a 5 gallon batch before it starts fading.
I have a DIPA that used many more late boil additions that after a few months, the hops are muted but still very flavorful. Have any of you others experienced this? Is it a problem in my process, or is this normal for flameout/whirlpool hops?
I’m thinking about going back to a more normal hop schedule for my IPAs with more hops in the boil and less at flameout, unless someone can talk me out of it…
It’s funny you mention this, I was just drinking my latest DIPA (off the topper) which has a majority of its hops added as whirlpool and after about a month in bottles it doesn’t seem to have as much of a hop flavor as it did when i first started drinking them. Though I have another IPA that i did almost exclusively whirlpool which is about 6 months old and that seems to have stood the test of time. Not sure what the difference is.
It might be the hop types you are using. Citra? I’ve noticed that it fades quickly, and this was backed up by Mitch Steele in one of his interviews.
East Kent Goldings seem to last quite a long time.
It makes sense that the stronger something is, the more you will notice a 30% drop in its power.
But I do agree with you; I hate how quickly the aroma fades in general for my hoppy brews. I’ve gone to brewing much smaller batches, and having more friends over, as my rememdy.
Also, when you are steeping, you are probably adding oils that have lower boiling points than the oils you added during the boil. Very different compounds, and it is quite possible that their stability is quite different as well. Not to mention, less isomerization may be occurring as well, depending on process.
So, lots of reasons that your theory may be valid!
Matt, that’s exactly the one I had last night and noticed it was already fading. I think I’m not a fan of hopshot - the last two IPAs have a really harsh bitterness now that the aroma hops are fading.
Seajellie, I’ve gone to making half-batches of IPAs for that very reason. However, the last couple batches I’ve only had about a 2-week window to drink them at their peak, and this time of year you’re only one flu virus away from completely missing them at their best.
Porkchop I couldn’t agree more! I have said on here a dozen times that the hopstanding flavors/aromas dissipate rapidly and has major stability problems. I too have returned to more traditional hopping schedules. If I want big aroma/flavor I load up on late additions but boil for at least a minute.
I am led to believe that commericial offerings are adding a stability product that tanal b or similar.
[quote=“Loopie Beer”]Porkchop I couldn’t agree more! I have said on here a dozen times that the hopstanding flavors/aromas dissipate rapidly and has major stability problems. I too have returned to more traditional hopping schedules. If I want big aroma/flavor I load up on late additions but boil for at least a minute.
I am led to believe that commericial offerings are adding a stability product that tanal b or similar.[/quote]
Thanks, I was trying to remember who said that a week or so ago! I was disappointed, to say the least, when I tried one of my HT clones last night and it had gone from tropical hop juice to harsh bitter with a little hop aroma. I think I’ll try something along the lines of 2HA’s hop schedule next time.
Do you think the boiling for only a minute has an effect? Maybe I’ll go in that direction instead.
As I said I went back to traditional hopping. My SOP for PA/IPA is a FWH, a 60 min addition, a 10 min, 5 min, 2 min, and a 1 min/FO. I think I get excellent flavor and aroma and it doesn’t seem to simply dissapate like hop standing.
Thanks! I’m going to try this out next time I make an IPA. Until then, I have about 5 total gallons of really bitter, high alcohol beer with little to no hop flavor to work through.
Would you mind posting an example hop schedule with hop varieties and IBUs? Trying to do a “reset” on IPAs, and it would be great to start from something that works. I wasn’t really happy with my IPAs before getting into whirlpool hops, but I just can’t drink a batch fast enough to keep it near its peak.
I can post one when I get on the comp with beersmith. Usually I make session IPA as I like to have more than one but the idea is the same.
Really its not rocket science. Small FWH, bittering to balance, and relatively small late additions. I really like hop bursting, which is adding numerous additions late.
I had a couple of the Off The Toppers last night and they were bursting with hop flavor so not sure what gives. Seems some of the bottles lost their hop flavor while others didn’t. Maybe it’s an oxidation thing?
Oxidation will certainly mute the hops. I just equate it as its the first thing to fade naturally so naturally it fades quickly… if that makes sense. :lol:
I’ve heard of brewers adding the whirlpool hops when the wort gets below 180 degrees so as to not add much or any bitterness but keep the effect. I’ve done it but didn’t do any side by side comparisons to test any difference in flavor or aroma. Is it possible that adding them right at flameout would have a negative effect vs adding them and whirlpool/hopstand when the temp is below 180?
I’ll have to take this into consideration and have 7 or 8 of them tonight to see if I can notice any differences between the bottles! :mrgreen:
The last couple I had, the carb seemed a little lower than expected, so it’s entirely possible that the caps may have been leaking. If they had, I could see the hop aroma disappearing quickly.
It’s funny you mention this because I noticed a pretty big inconsistency in carbonation among the beers in this batch. I put 2 in the fridge earlier this week and had them last night. The first one was not nearly as carbed as the second one. Might have been a difference of ~0.3 vols or so but still noticeable.
Here’s one I have done. 10.25gal batch. Like I said, I like hop bursting.
0.25 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 4 2.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 5.8 IBUs
0.85 oz Centennial [9.90 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 16.4 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 0.9 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 1.9 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 0.8 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 1.6 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 0.5 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 12 1.1 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 8.0 min Hop 13 0.5 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 8.0 min Hop 14 0.9 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 6.0 min Hop 15 0.4 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 6.0 min Hop 16 0.7 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 4.0 min Hop 17 0.2 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 4.0 min Hop 18 0.5 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 19 0.1 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 20 0.3 IBUs
0.20 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 21 0.0 IBUs
0.20 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 22 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 24 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 25 0.0 IBUs
[quote=“Loopie Beer”]Here’s one I have done. 10.25gal batch. Like I said, I like hop bursting.
0.25 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 4 2.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 5.8 IBUs
0.85 oz Centennial [9.90 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 16.4 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 0.9 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 1.9 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 0.8 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 1.6 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 0.5 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 12 1.1 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 8.0 min Hop 13 0.5 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 8.0 min Hop 14 0.9 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 6.0 min Hop 15 0.4 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 6.0 min Hop 16 0.7 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 4.0 min Hop 17 0.2 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 4.0 min Hop 18 0.5 IBUs
0.15 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 19 0.1 IBUs
0.15 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 20 0.3 IBUs
0.20 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 21 0.0 IBUs
0.20 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 22 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Ahtanum [5.20 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 24 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.80 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 25 0.0 IBUs[/quote]
21 hop additions to a single beer? I’ve never gotten close to that. Might be why I can never get my hop-forward beers to be that great? Last week I made a Boston Lager clone with 4 hop additions (plus a dry hop I haven’t added yet), which is the most I’ve done in quite a while.
I find by bursting like that I get tons of flavor and aroma because as you know every minute that a hop spends in boil, aroma and flavor is boiled off. What’s really nice by doing it this way is that I can use smaller amounts which doesn’t add up to much. Its only 3.5 oz per hop including the dry hop, which isn’t a ton for a 10 gal batch.
Oh and as I mentioned. I feel I get much much better stability. I got to believe commercial brewers that hop stand use something like tanal b or similar.
Nice! I’m going to try something along these lines next time. It’s kind of like how DFH “continually hops” some of their hop-forward beers. Coincidence?
