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Which oxygen system

Looking to move past my aquarium pump setup and into an oxygen system. I like the idea of more oxygen in the wort and less time to get it there. I have little knowledge of the types of systems but after listening to Brewstrong I believe that there are 2. Metered and unmetered.

Metered being more of the hospital provided type with controlled flow rates and unmetered being more of the “turn it on or turn it off” type I may be totally wrong, which is why I am asking the forum.

Is one better that the other? What type do you guys use/prefer? Does it make a notable difference in the finished product?

Get this one.

How long do you let that run when you are aerating?

That’s what I use. I do two minutes on high and get a real good vortex goin. I’ve only had one fermentation with a lag longer than 24hrs since I started doing this and even then I think the temp is what slowed it down.

With this system you will still only reach around 8ppm of oxygen in the wort, and I think it would take 3 - 5 minutes to get there.

In order to get your dissolved oxygen levels above 8ppm you would need a pure O2 system.

The cost of an umetered oxygen regulator plus stone is reasonable (~$50). I think it is a better value and more predictable then messing around with the mix stir. I have a mix stir used it for about two years and recently switched to oxygen and think it is a better solution. The mix stir is OK in a carboy, but in a bucket it can get messy. Plus, I use my drill to mill grains and am always concerned that grain dust is going to drift from my drill into the fermenter as I stand over it.

I run it for several minutes moving the drill up and down. Works pretty good.

works good by what though?

A stainless steel whip stir is I think around 20 bucks so half the price of a oxygen setup
I would just go with the cheap 50 buck turn off and on one.
Unless you go the money to blow and like high tech stuff.

works good by what though?
[/quote]
By the quality of the beer, lag time of less than 12 hours, and ease of use.

works good by what though?
[/quote]
By the quality of the beer, lag time of less than 12 hours, and ease of use.[/quote]

that doesnt mean the whip stir is the reasoning behind it, besides ease of use.
For Ease of use oxygen set up would wind hands down

I disagree. You have to boil the stone, that’s an extra step I don’t care to do. Spraying the mix stir with sanitizer is much easier.

The main difference you will between the two is really its efficeincy of dissolving oxygen in to the wort.

Natural aeration at atmospheric pressure will max out at 8ppm of dissolved oxygen, no matter how long you continues to aerate.
^this would include using a mix stir, aquarium pump setup, shaking, or pouring from vessel to vessel. All of these methods can reach 8ppm but will differ in the amount of time required.

Aeration using a pure O2 setup can achieve up to 30ppm of dissolved oxygen in the wort in a very short time.

A typical ale of 1.050 OG using Mr. Malty recommended pitching rates suggests 10ppm disolved oxygen, larger beers recommend even higher amounts, upwards of 16ppm.

The real question becomes wether you want to spend less money ($0 - $25) and sacrafice the amount of available O2 in the wort, or spend more money ($50 - $80) and provide adequate aeration for even the largest beers.

Also here is an article from Wyeast

[quote=“Wyeast”]Oxygenation
Oxygen is a critical additive in brewing. Oxygen is the only necessary nutrient not naturally found in wort. Adding adequate oxygen to wort requires a fundamental understanding of why yeast need oxygen, how much oxygen they need, and how to get oxygen into solution and the factors affecting solubility of oxygen.

Why Yeast Need Oxygen

Yeast use oxygen for cell membrane synthesis. Without oxygen, cell growth will be extremely limited. Yeast can only produce sterols and certain unsaturated fatty acids necessary for cell growth in the presence of oxygen.

Inadequate oxygenation will lead to inadequate yeast growth. Inadequate yeast growth can cause poor attenuation, inconsistent or long fermentations, production of undesirable flavor and aroma compounds, and produces yeast that are not fit for harvesting and re-pitching.

How Much Oxygen?

Oxygen requirement is variable depending on: yeast strain employed, original gravity of wort, and wort trub levels.

Some yeast strains have higher oxygen requirements than others. It is generally safe to assume that you need at least 10ppm of oxygen. 10ppm will supply adequate oxygen in most situations. Over-oxygenation is generally not a concern as the yeast will use all available oxygen within 3 to 9 hours of pitching and oxygen will come out of solution during that time as well. Under-oxygenation is a much bigger concern.

Higher original gravities are stressful to yeast as well as being difficult to get oxygen into solution. As the gravity of wort increases, solubility of oxygen decreases. Increased temperatures also decrease the solubility of wort.

The unsaturated fatty acids found in wort trub can be utilized by yeast and directly incorporated into membranes. If wort trub levels are low, yeast will need to synthesize more of these lipids and therefore will require more oxygen.

Methods of Aeration / Oxygenation

The best method for dissolving oxygen into solution is to inject pure oxygen through a sintered stone that is in-line during run-in. There are pieces of equipment available that greatly increase the solubility of the oxygen that is injected. Greater solubility is achieved by creating a restriction where the oxygen is injected followed by a much less restrictive chamber followed by another restriction. This design causes turbulence which allows greater contact time and mixing between the oxygen bubbles and the wort which increases the rate of oxygen transfer to the wort.

The quantity of pure oxygen or air necessary to achieve adequate dissolved oxygen levels depends on many factors which vary greatly from brewery to brewery. It is important to remember that 8 ppm is the maximum level of dissolved oxygen that can be dissolved into wort when using air. To achieve levels higher than 8 ppm pure oxygen needs to be used. Measurement of dissolved oxygen levels with a dissolved oxygen meter is the only sure way to know if you are achieving adequate oxygen levels.

Wort temperatures and wort gravity both have profound effects on oxygen solubility. As wort temperatures increase, oxygen solubility decreases. As wort gravity increases, oxygen solubility decreases. These are very important factors to recognize and compensate for.

[/quote]

true, but that determines on how you go about doing it for time saving reasons

true, but that determines on how you go about doing it for time saving reasons[/quote]

those whips work good… theyre fast… anyone will tell you that. 8ppm is enough o2 for
most
beers

if you want to spend more- the o2 tank is obviously superior. but do you REALLY need more than 8ppm for most beers? id argue, no

true, but that determines on how you go about doing it for time saving reasons[/quote]

those whips work good… theyre fast… anyone will tell you that. 8ppm is enough o2 for
most
beers

if you want to spend more- the o2 tank is obviously superior. but do you REALLY need more than 8ppm for most beers? id argue, no[/quote]

most homebrewewrs do not know if they are hitting 8ppm

[quote=“grainbelt”]
most homebrewewrs do not know if they are hitting 8ppm[/quote]

well yeah… just like homebrewers dont KNOW theyre yeast count, but its assumed given the age of the yeast and the packaging. i dont understand what youre getting at. these whips have been tested and compared with other systems before. to say its obsolete is just wrong

yes 02 tank can give you more 02. but unless youre doing really big beers other o2 systems work just fine. (NO i dont have concrete evidence of this, for i am not a scientist. but through experience, the experience of others, and many discussions on the topic. a educated guess is completely valid)

edit: i believe pure 02 is definitely better. i just think the whips are fine for most brews, especially if you dont have the $$$

[quote=“S.Scoggin”][quote=“grainbelt”]
most homebrewewrs do not know if they are hitting 8ppm[/quote]

well yeah… just like homebrewers dont KNOW theyre yeast count, but its assumed given the age of the yeast and the packaging. i dont understand what youre getting at. these whips have been tested and compared with other systems before. to say its obsolete is just wrong

yes 02 tank can give you more 02. but unless youre doing really big beers other o2 systems work just fine. (NO i dont have concrete evidence of this, for i am not a scientist. but through experience, the experience of others, and many discussions on the topic. a educated guess is completely valid)

edit: i believe pure 02 is definitely better. i just think the whips are fine for most brews, especially if you dont have the $$$[/quote]

I know, I have used them in the past to, people can make the decisions for themselves (and thats the point to make your own decision by what you think helps you with your system). I’ve decided against them lately as that vortex can bring in a lot of other nasties IME (especially with buckets) than simple shaking when talking about the most beer for the 8ppm.
You can easily modify a stopper to plug up a carboy when using the whip stirs to, which is what I do when and if I use them anymore
Jamil had a good episode on whip stirs and yes they work and are easy, but had adverse effects to.

I heard Denny say that he doesn’t use pure O2 because he feels his beer is as good or better, using his mix stir, than guys in his club that use pure O2. Seems pretty solid. If your beer is good and other people think it’s good, that seems good enough. I say good because great is pretty unrealistic in my opinion. I’d say I have a fantastic pale on tap right now, it’s definitely GOOD, but it’s not GREAT. I don’t know, maybe it is great. But great compared to what? Compared to what you buy in the store? I’d say my pale is that. But I’m not sure I’ve ever had a beer I thought was great, but very good or fantastic. I feel like great is the ultimate destination for a beer, somehow cosmically impossible. Maybe I’m just blowing smoke…

I like my o2 stone and the results I get with it, can’t say it’s better than the whip, but it’s easier for me than shaking or stirring my wort. As for boiling to get it clean I don’t do that until the day I brew. I hook up the stone to the tank, turn it on, and keep it on until it’s out of the fermenter. Then a soak in in sanitizer.
I agree with the big beer and lagers needing more o2, I think I’ve screwed up a lager because of a lack of it.

another worry i have with the mix stir is that i do NOT want my kitchen/basement air getting sucked into my fermenter. In my conical, I do a transfer into a closed, sanitized fermenter and then aerate with sanitiary O2. I’d rather not mix in my dusty moldy basement air (although I’ve done it before).

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