The Redefined East Coast IPA

http://narrative.ly/drinking-buddies/th ... eresville/

Good article, I really agree with Hill redefining the style, though I would say Alchemist definitely deserves some credit for the ‘new’ East Coast IPA.

In the past, “East Coast IPA” meant an under-hopped DFH 60 Minute…blech.

I agree, too, if I’m understanding him properly, but I have to really question how good an IPA is that cannot last more than a week in the bottle before it goes bad. Hops are a preservative after all, soooo…that one kind of mystifies me, really. A properly bittered IPA should be able to last at least a good 3 or 4 months before it starts to go bad, really. I mean, after solid flavor, long shelf life is really the hallmark of a good IPA, as the history behind the style tells us. Of course, I’m just going on what one person says about the beer, but still, it seems like a pretty odd thing to say in an article that’s supposed to be praising the beer and making a case for the brand’s expansion. Sabotage, you might even say. I don’t know…that’s just how I’m reading it.

I mean, Shaun Hill is pretty much the beer equivalent of the Soup Nazi. There are disclaimers all over the brewery that “we reserve the right to reject a growler for fill that is not ours”. In one way, I really appreciate his passion/OCD for serving, as so many places put so much into the production, then they have pedio/diacetyl in the serving line or have a college kid fill a growler, lose half the carb, and all of the sudden you are drinking a pretty mediocre product.

On the other hand, it can just be weird.

I always mean to age a Heady Topper just to see how it does, but they never last that long :cheers:

Heady remains the same hoppy goodness if you age it in the fridge. It does change, but not better or worse. Stays good and hoppy.

I’m starting to hear this East Coast IPA referred to as “Vermont IPA” too, and it all kind of makes me cringe a little. We have excellent beer here, but is the IPA different enough to warrant name differentiation? Feels a little “Cascadian” in approach. Not my favorite. Full disclosure, I’m a native Vermonter.

[quote=“burdbrew”]Heady remains the same hoppy goodness if you age it in the fridge. It does change, but not better or worse. Stays good and hoppy.

I’m starting to hear this East Coast IPA referred to as “Vermont IPA” too, and it all kind of makes me cringe a little. We have excellent beer here, but is the IPA different enough to warrant name differentiation? Feels a little “Cascadian” in approach. Not my favorite. Full disclosure, I’m a native Vermonter.[/quote]

Man, I love Vermonters! :cheers:

In my mind at least ,the reasoning behind this is to differentiate it from a “West Coast IPA”, and yes, yes, yes, it is VERY different within the spectrum of IPAs. Less dry (but not sweet), bigger mouthfeel, and not nearly as pithy/puckering as the West Coast hop bombs…but still full of amazing hop aroma flavor, and a firm bitterness.

When we brewed our Heady clone, we had a bottle of Pliny about a month old that we tried next to a similar-age can of Heady. Vermont IPA by a landslide.

I think its something I’d be proud of as a Vermonter (but alas, I am not a Vermonter), because at least as of this moment, its the best beer I’ve ever had.

Interestingly, I find pliny to be much less mouth puckeringly bitter than Heady. HT is super dank and resinous to me and Pliny is very crisp and refined.

[quote=“Pietro”]

Man, I love Vermonters! :cheers:

In my mind at least ,the reasoning behind this is to differentiate it from a “West Coast IPA”, and yes, yes, yes, it is VERY different within the spectrum of IPAs. Less dry (but not sweet), bigger mouthfeel, and not nearly as pithy/puckering as the West Coast hop bombs…but still full of amazing hop aroma flavor, and a firm bitterness.

When we brewed our Heady clone, we had a bottle of Pliny about a month old that we tried next to a similar-age can of Heady. Vermont IPA by a landslide.

I think its something I’d be proud of as a Vermonter (but alas, I am not a Vermonter), because at least as of this moment, its the best beer I’ve ever had.[/quote]

In Vermont, we call Vermont IPA “IPA”.

I’ve had them all, and ours stands up, and I don’t take for granted that we have decent access to it. It should continue to be compared against the best IPA’s without distractions focusing on minor differences. You may be overthinking it, or maybe I pass on the ratebeer way of looking at our thing, who knows. I hear that you like it, me too, we have that. And you aren’t the first flatlander to frame us as quaint (that’s an endearing term we use from time to time).

No, its not the ‘quaintness’ that I admire (though spending some time in Waterbury and surrounding could certainly be characterized as so), its the way Vermonters are just unaffected. Its so far from arrogance, I wouldn’t even call it pride, but its an understated confidence about the area and way of life.

You go to NOLA, Austin, or even Savannah, and people know they live in an awesome city, and tell you about how awesome it is. Vermonters just kind of let one see it for one’s self, and when one (such as me) proclaims its awesomeness, we get barely get a pat on the head/tussle of the hair. Again, not rude or prideful by any means, just quietly confident. Like the beers I mentioned :cheers:

You’re all right P. We are an odd group with serious pride, no doubts.

We don’t typically take our own press too seriously. Some see that as a lack of awareness. I see it as a low tolerance for hype. The beers speaks, we don’t have to.

I wait anxiously for Hollywood to put together an Ethan Allen bio-pic. Threaten to succeed from the union by day, drink like a frat boy by night. I’m probably too regional now.

I know I’m digging up an old thread, but there was a quote from John Kimmich in Seven Days (our popular local weekly paper) that made me smile. I appreciate his candor. Pretense is for others.

[quote=“burdbrew”]I know I’m digging up an old thread, but there was a quote from John Kimmich in Seven Days (our popular local weekly paper) that made me smile. I appreciate his candor. Pretense is for others.
[/quote]

Thanks for posting that clipping. I like his way of thinking.
Actually, it seems to me that there is definitely no shortage of BS in the world of beer these days coming from all quarters of the beer biz. :shock:
:cheers:

Thanks for posting Burd. Man, Kimmich is ever-the-modest Pittsburger!

I do stand by my original statement/prognosis that East Coast IPA does not mean what it used to, at least to me. Furthermore, ‘styles’ just develop from a group of brewers, usually in a geographic region, brewing something that is relatively similar. So I’m not sure why he sees it as such a pretentious thing.

As an aside, was listening to the Brewing Network’s Sunday Session, which I usually love, but they were doing a blind East Coast/West Coast IPA tasting where they had to identify which coast it came from, and they were basically slamming Heady Topper for being too ‘sweet’. I think they are confusing hop flavor with sweetness. It is sweet/juicy in the middle of the palette but dries right the hell out. Same with SoS/Foley/14th Star (not so much on Fiddlehead…which I just find to be too malty/caramelly). So while they are still entertaining, they basically lost all credibility as tasters to me, because the hop flavor in those beers blows just about everything I’ve had from the west coast away. Including Pliny.

[quote=“Pietro”]Thanks for posting Burd. Man, Kimmich is ever-the-modest Pittsburger!

I do stand by my original statement/prognosis that East Coast IPA does not mean what it used to, at least to me. Furthermore, ‘styles’ just develop from a group of brewers, usually in a geographic region, brewing something that is relatively similar. So I’m not sure why he sees it as such a pretentious thing.

As an aside, was listening to the Brewing Network’s Sunday Session, which I usually love, but they were doing a blind East Coast/West Coast IPA tasting where they had to identify which coast it came from, and they were basically slamming Heady Topper for being too ‘sweet’. I think they are confusing hop flavor with sweetness. It is sweet/juicy in the middle of the palette but dries right the hell out. Same with SoS/Foley/14th Star (not so much on Fiddlehead…which I just find to be too malty/caramelly). So while they are still entertaining, they basically lost all credibility as tasters to me, because the hop flavor in those beers blows just about everything I’ve had from the west coast away. Including Pliny.[/quote]

I don’t think they slammed HT. IIRC, they liked it the best of all the beers. They did say it was sweet for the style, but given that there’s been at least 2 weeks of “listener feedback” from east coasters griping about their opinions, I think maybe we all need to lighten up a bit. It’s just beer.

I totally agree that ‘its just beer’, and in the end, do the opinions from a bunch of hooligans from Martinez affect my life in any way? Absolutely not.

HOWEVER, they are on a show, that is meant for entertainment, and is meant to disseminate knowledge and informed opinions about beer, so when they fail to do that, I call it out. They just offended my delicate sensibilities for this emerging style (sorry Kimmich, but you’re on this train now, just embrace it) with their ignorance, and frankly, incorrect opinions. Yes, it is possible to have a ‘false’ opinion, particularly when it is contrary to mine. :cheers:

I should also note that I didn’t hear that they liked HT best. I must have turned off the episode in disgust before hearing that :mrgreen:

Wahoo, do you know the date of the episode? I want to listen to it again (for a variety of reasons, including the above, I turned it off), and now I can’t find it.

It was in early april I think.

I think it was the April 5 show. Pietro ever do a blind tasting of fresh east/west coast ipa? I gotta say I’ve had HT once and was not impressed. It was good but didn’t blow me away. I don’t know how fresh it was. It was given to me by a friend who traded for it. I’ve also had Younger which I know was fresh and it was good but I don’t feel it lived up to the hype either. To me it seems like some beers have so much hype that they could never live up to it.

I must admit I have not done them blind, but I did try Pliny (~3 weeks old, bottled, from the brewpub) next to Heady (not blind, with 20/20 vision), and for me, the hop flavor was far better in the Heady. The two guys I was with had not had Pliny before, and were incredibly psyched to try it, and felt the same way. While Pliny was a great IIPA, it still had the pithy bitterness when compared to Heady. Again, some prefer that bitterness, and all palettes are different, so it does not taste the same to different tasters.

Heady definitely varies batch to batch, so I would encourage you to try it again. In fact, the first one I had was itself relatively high on the ‘mehmeter’.

I also agree with you on hype. However, I do remember my first pint of fresh Pliny at Cheeky Monk in Denver, and it was one of ‘those’ moments. Incredible. Few beers live up to the hype, but both California and VT are the Napa and Burgundy if you like hop-forward beer. My two faves so far from Cali are Blind Pig and Pizza Port Swami.

I would really be interested to do a blind triangle taste of them, but I think at this point, I could probably identify the origin. This is the real point of my OP, that they are so different (but both so good in execution and in flavor) that it may warrant a stylistic separation.

Why can’t we all meet in the middle? Like in the CLE where there is Fat Heads Headhunter and Brew Kettle’s White Rajah? I think I will start calling them Midwest IPA’s :cheers:

I know you meant this as a joke, but I honestly do find that a lot of midwestern IPAs are way more malt (particularly caramel malt)-heavy than East or West Coast (the above-examples excluded). They are on (or completely over) the line of amber territory.

I’ve particularly found this with many of the Chicago-area beers, including Pipeworks, Finch’s, Revolution (but not necessarily Half Acre or FFF), and, I’m sorry GLBC, but Commodore Perry as well. Same with Surly’s hop-forward beers.

Finally, don’t misunderstand me: I’m not meaning to say one is better or worse, but they do have stylistic and consistent differences EDIT: across geographies, which was the meaning of original post, and the whole reason there is a difference between helles and german pils.