The liquid yeast monster

Yeast & Fermentation
1

I’ve got 9 “dry yeast” batches under my belt now, so I thought I might expand my horizons by using liquid yeast for the first time.

Wyeast 1056 to be exact.

And a yeast starter with a stir plate. Recipe per Northern Brewer video.

The yeast starter was on the stir plate for 24 hours before I dumped the contents into the primary fermenter. Extract kit #3 of the same Pale Ale.

I went through the normal, well sanitized, fermentation period, followed by 3 weeks conditioning in the bottle.

When I popped the top on the first bottle, the yeast and it’s fruit laden flavors was overwhelming and the dregs left behind on the bottom of the bottle formed this yeast genie that tried to take over the Universe.

Fifty bottles went down the drain. Along with 50 yeast genies.

I am now assuming that a Wyeast smack pack, or a White Labs vial, is enough for a 5 gallon batch. No stir plate needed.

Which leaves the question…when exactly do you use your starter and stir plate? And for how long?

EDIT: Maybe a clue here.

Wyeast says that their smack packs may be swollen a bit from residuals in the bag.

When I received the pack, it was swollen like a basketball.

It was very difficult to “smack the pack” and break the inner nutrient pack. It was only after I emulated Bruce Lee that I was able to break that nutrient packet.

Bad Yeast pack?

2

First, you don’t have to smack the inner pack, especially if it’s swollen.
I’ve used Wyeast for years, and have yet to get a bad pack. I also use a starter on a stir plate for every beer, except reusing the cake from a previous beer.
Did you add the entire contents, or cold crash and discard the liquid on top?
1056 is known for having a clean taste profile, perhaps you pulled a lot of trub off the bottom.
What temp did you ferment at?

I’m not sure what you mean by yeast genies, but I would have waited before dumping all the bottles.

3

You willy nilly dumped a 5 gallon batch of beer? WOW. :shock:

1 pack is “technically” good for a 5 gallon batch of ~1.040 beer. Thousands of gallons of beer have been made with less than “ideal” amounts of yeast.

You didn’t mention how long the bottle was in the fridge before you opened it.

Correct that you don’t need to pop the inner pouch. It’s a little pack of wort/nutrients. You made a starter so the inner pouch is a mute point.

What was the highest temp the beer saw after fermentation and before bottling? How much priming sugar did you use?

Even if every bottle was a gusher, you can pour them into 2 glasses and drink when the foam subsides. :wink:

4

[quote=“Nighthawk”]You willy nilly dumped a 5 gallon batch of beer? WOW. :shock:
Even if every bottle was a gusher, you can pour them into 2 glasses and drink when the foam subsides. :wink: [/quote]

Yeah, I still have a few 10 yr. old bottles of my first and only Beano beer. Didn’t taste bad, but every bottle spewed foam.

Hate dumping out beer.

5

I dumped the entire contents of the smack pack into the well sanitized 2 liter flask. The stir bar and breathable foam stopper were sanitized, as well.

The entire contents of the 2 liter flask was poured into the primary glass carboy on top of the wort.

The carboy was aerated per normal procedure.

The fermentation temperature was 64-68 degrees, maintained and checked twice daily.

Priming was 4.1 ounces by weight of corn sugar.

The first bottle was in the keezer (37 degrees) for 24 hours.

No gushers in any of the bottles. Just a normal and light pssst.

I tasted a heavy, yeasty and fruity taste that become worse as I neared the bottom of the glass. I was careful during the pour to leave the last half inch in the bottle.

A much different taste from what I have come to know using Safale-05. Two previous batches of this pale ale using Safale-05 have been great.

It appears that I need to give Wyeast 1056 another shot, straight from the bag, to see what happens.

Thanks for the help.

BTW…all education costs money…so I didn’t mind the loss of the beer.

Besides, if I wanted to drink beer that I don’t like, I can buy some at Wal-Mart. :shock:

6

1056 is my favorite yeast for pales so far. I always make a starter, but cold crash & decant before adding to fermenter. No off flavors up to this point so that may be the culprit. Did you check gravity before bottling? Just curious what the FG was. Maybe not complete fermentation. Not an expert by any means, but i wouldn’t give up on the 1056 (& don’t dump!!). Good luck! :slight_smile:

7

[quote=“mrv”]
Yeah, I still have a few 10 yr. old bottles of my first and only Beano beer. Didn’t taste bad, but every bottle spewed foam.

Hate dumping out beer.[/quote]

Beano Beer has gas problems?!?! :lol:

8

+1

That’s the only issue I would change in the process he described.

9

What does it mean to decant your cold crashed yeast starter? Are you trying to remove the liquid or the yeast?

10

You carefully remove the liquid from the yeast slurry so you can pitch the yeast.

11

Cold crashing, getting the starter or beer as cold as possible, gets many of the yeast to drop out of solution. Then you decant, pour off, most of the liquid/beer.

Adding all of the starter from the starter is not the best idea. Continuous aeration on the stir plate, oxidation, and warmer fermentation temps can give you a funky tasting liquid. I would not want to add that to 5 gallons of wort.

Back to the OP…

How old was the beer? Sometimes they need a little time in the bottle.

You said the fermentation temp was 64-68. Is that air temp or liquid temp?

In your 1st post you said yeast genie. To me that brings the visual of a genie coming out of a bottle. If you overcarb a beer, when you open the bottle it will foam out the top, like a genie.

12

The beer was 3 weeks in the bottle. Room temperature.

The fermentation temp was liquid temp as the glass carboy was immersed in a maintained 64-68 degree temperature water.

By “yeast monster”, I did NOT mean over carbonation with beer foam escaping the bottle, but rather a heavy taste that I can only describe as “bready”, “fruity” and “yeasty”, which was even worse at the bottom of the glass.

A taste of the dregs at the bottom of the bottle was nasty.

I never tasted that before.

The “funky” tasting liquid comment seems to fit my situation very well.

This was my 3rd batch of Sierra Madre Pale ale. It has become my favorite beer.

The first two batches, made with Safale-05 were excellent.

The fourth batch, also made with Safale-05, gets bottled tomorrow, 07/14.

I haven’t stuck my nose into this fourth batch yet, but my suspicion is that it will be just fine.

I don’t know what happened with my liquid 1056 yeast batch, but I want to say that I poured in TOO MUCH yeast, and that there is a practical limit to adding yeast.

BTW, I am still not clear as to when a yeast starter is necessary and when it is overkill.

Perhaps that answer will be forthcoming.

Nevertheless, I’ll try it 1056 again without using a starter to see what results.

13

[quote=“mjrodney”]The beer was 3 weeks in the bottle. Room temperature.

You didn’t even give the little guy a chance to shine. :cry:

The fermentation temp was liquid temp as the glass carboy was immersed in a maintained 64-68 degree temperature water.

By “yeast monster”, I did NOT mean over carbonation with beer foam escaping the bottle, but rather a heavy taste that I can only describe as “bready”, “fruity” and “yeasty”, which was even worse at the bottom of the glass.

A taste of the dregs at the bottom of the bottle was nasty.

I never tasted that before.

I’ve never cared for the dreges. But have consumed some for the perceived health benefit of the yeast.

The “funky” tasting liquid comment seems to fit my situation very well.

This was my 3rd batch of Sierra Madre Pale ale. It has become my favorite beer.

The first two batches, made with Safale-05 were excellent.

The fourth batch, also made with Safale-05, gets bottled tomorrow, 07/14.

I haven’t stuck my nose into this fourth batch yet, but my suspicion is that it will be just fine.

I don’t know what happened with my liquid 1056 yeast batch, but I want to say that I poured in TOO MUCH yeast, and that there is a practical limit to adding yeast.

BTW, I am still not clear as to when a yeast starter is necessary and when it is overkill.

Perhaps that answer will be forthcoming.

[color=#0000FF]If you are following “pro” brewers pitching rates, anytime you have a 5 gallon batch of beer over 1.040 you need to increase the cell count from what is in the smack pack/vial. See Mr Malty or YeastCalc for more info.

But, millions of gallons of beer has been made with pitching less the “ideal pro” quantities of yeast. They will multiply in the wort and ferment as much of the sugars as possible.

That is just my opinion. Other will tell you they can taste a difference in under pitched beers and that they have high ending gravities if they don’t do starters. [/color]

Nevertheless, I’ll try it 1056 again without using a starter to see what results.[/quote]

14

But, millions of gallons of beer has been made with pitching less the “ideal pro” quantities of yeast. They will multiply in the wort and ferment as much of the sugars as possible.

Sounds a bit like common sense.

More is not always better.

I’ll continue to experiment, but only after the keezer is already full.

Thanks for the advice.

15

1056 and US-05 are almost identical.

even if you over-pitched your fermenter, that yeast should not carry over to the bottles. You should let the yeast settle out first.

I dont think a 24 hour starter with stir plate, would be wildly over-pitching for that beer. Just like mentioned above, a lot of good beer has been made by underpitching - the same goes for overpitching.

I would not blame the yeast. It sounds to me like you didn’t let the yeast fall out of suspension before your transfer to a bottling bucket, and while cold conditioning in the bottle. More time in the fridge would have achieved this, and you would have had a clear-er beer (less yeast in suspension) and less of that yeast flavor. also decanting your next starter is always a good idea.

good luck on your next batch. i hope this experience didn’t completely turn you off to liquid yeast strains.
:cheers:

16

Thanks for the further thoughts, although I should add that this batch sat in the primary carboy for 10 days and the krausen was completely settled out before being transferred to secondary carboy for an additional 2 weeks.

I tend to be absolutely anal about sanitation and safe no oxygen transfer, so I doubt it was anything there.

In any case, I won’t be giving up on liquid yeast.

People wouldn’t use it if it was a bad thing.

I’ll be making another batch of this same exact beer using 1056 in the future.

I really do want to taste the differences, if there are any, between dry and liquid.

Thanks for all the advice.

Bottling today, brewing tomorrow, life is good.

17

This whole thread/occurrence is beyond me. I have never tasted what the OP is describing, unless I drank slurry or a bad pour from a bottle conditioned beer.

WLP001/WY1056/US-05 are Sierra Nevada yeast (“Chico”). IME it is difficult/impossible to find a notable/perceivable difference between 001 and 1056, however, in some beers, I can perceive a peach ester from US-05 if you ferment in the low 60’s. I really only find this in blonde ales and other very subtle beers though. Anything hop-forward, the hop aromas drown out most esters if the beer is fermented in the right temp range.

Have you ever tasted anything like you tasted in your beer from a commercial beer? I’m wondering if you might have a water/pH issue (?)

18

[quote=“mjrodney”]A taste of the dregs at the bottom of the bottle was nasty.
[/quote]

Dude, don’t drink that stuff!

19

I’m guessing that you transferred too much sediment to the bottling bucket - there should only be a light dusting of sediment on the bottom of the bottle and you should be able to pour without disturbing that layer.