Stalled yeast in an all extract dubbel?

Yeast & Fermentation
1

Our fermentation has either stalled, died, or finished in around 30 hours.

So, we’re moving along just fine, considering ourselves to be sophomore-level extract brewers at this point, and bam. We must’ve gotten cocky, because our Dubbel is acting up.

So, we brewed a fairly standard Belgian Dubble extract recipe* (from More Beer, ssssshhhh, don’t tell NB), and the yeast on this recipe was a Saflager S-23, calling for a fermentation at 68 degrees. We pitched it at about 68, sealed the bucket up, and put her in a warm 68-70 degree fermentation space. *
http://morebeer.com/images/file.php?file_id=1113

Within about 16 hours it was bubbling vigorously; more vigorously than any of our beers in the past. This happened all day, and then the next morning, nothing. Not a bubble. Just about less than 36 hours.

So we’re thinking, stall or something. Researching, and not finding too much out there specific enough to help. Palmer has some good reasons as to why that might happen, but nothing that we can figure out. So that night, despite a fear of oxygenation, we open her up to give her a vigorous sterilized spoon stir to try to get the yeast going, and cover her right up again. It looked like most of the krausen had subsided, and it smelled more like beer than wort. Anyway it’s just done too fast?

But this morning, still nothing. So, we rookies have a big question: What should we do? OH, and the kicker is that the same day we noticed it was dying, was the same day one of us dropped and shattered the hydrometer to give it a gravity read, so that’s out, until a new one shows up in the mail (hopefully tomorrow).

If the gravity is good, should we put it in the keg for some secondary conditioning, and seal her up for a couple weeks; if not, should we add yeast nutrients; re-pitch; pour it into the gutters; what? Thank you.

2

There is no reason to be in a hurry, leave it alone and wait for your hydrometer. You fermented pretty warm, so that could be the reason it was so fast. If the yeast did stall there are a few things to try, but we don’t know if they did stall. Just relax for a few days, and post a FG when you have it. :cheers:

3

[quote=“ajaime1178”]Our fermentation has either stalled, died, or finished in around 30 hours.

So, we’re moving along just fine, considering ourselves to be sophomore-level extract brewers at this point, and bam. We must’ve gotten cocky, because our Dubbel is acting up.

So, we brewed a fairly standard Belgian Dubble extract recipe* (from More Beer, ssssshhhh, don’t tell NB), and the yeast on this recipe was a Saflager S-23, calling for a fermentation at 68 degrees. We pitched it at about 68, sealed the bucket up, and put her in a warm 68-70 degree fermentation space. *
http://morebeer.com/images/file.php?file_id=1113

Within about 16 hours it was bubbling vigorously; more vigorously than any of our beers in the past. This happened all day, and then the next morning, nothing. Not a bubble. Just about less than 36 hours.

So we’re thinking, stall or something. Researching, and not finding too much out there specific enough to help. Palmer has some good reasons as to why that might happen, but nothing that we can figure out. So that night, despite a fear of oxygenation, we open her up to give her a vigorous sterilized spoon stir to try to get the yeast going, and cover her right up again. It looked like most of the krausen had subsided, and it smelled more like beer than wort. Anyway it’s just done too fast?

But this morning, still nothing. So, we rookies have a big question: What should we do? OH, and the kicker is that the same day we noticed it was dying, was the same day one of us dropped and shattered the hydrometer to give it a gravity read, so that’s out, until a new one shows up in the mail (hopefully tomorrow).

If the gravity is good, should we put it in the keg for some secondary conditioning, and seal her up for a couple weeks; if not, should we add yeast nutrients; re-pitch; pour it into the gutters; what? Thank you.[/quote]

First of all, remember that airlock activity does not equal fermentation activity.

Secondly, if your ambient temp was 68-70, your fermentation temp could have easily reached 73-75 during high krausen. Yeast generate heat when they are working. Next time, I would suggest a water bath (just submerge your fermenter in 5-6 inches of water), which will make it harder for the yeast to raise the temp of the beer they are submerged in, because THAT beer is submerged in water, and there is more mass.

Thirdly, I’m thinking because of the high fermentation temp, the yeast sped up activity and chewed through the sugars pretty quickly. I’m guessing your high krausen is over. So for a dubbel, I am guessing your gravity was in the high 1.060’s or above – I would suggest at least 3 weeks on the yeast even though you don’t see activity in the airlock.

Your ferm temp and quick krausen probably generated some fusels (hot alcohol), but you also probably got some good/desirable esters. Some additional time on the yeast may help subdue some of the off-flavors.

It will still be good beer, and if there are fusels, just stick a case of bottles (or more if you have other stuff in the pipeline) in the basement for a year. The alcohol will oxidize a bit and smooth out.

4

Alright, we shall SBRHAHB.

I’ll report back with a gravity reading soon.

Thank you Veterans for helping us rookies to chill out a bit. :roll:

:cheers:

5

[quote=“ajaime1178”]Alright, we shall SBRHAHB.

I’ll report back with a gravity reading soon.

Thank you Veterans for helping us rookies to chill out a bit. :roll:

:cheers: [/quote]

Doesn’t sound like you are a rookie, but thats whats great about this hobby, is people are almost always willing to help without making you feel like a new cyclist in a bike shop (“I can’t believe you’re not riding a two-niner, brah”). God I hope I didn’t come off like that.

Something to consider: if you are brewing with other people, consider having your next investment be temp control (chest freezer, heating element, and dual-stage controller ideally). Even before going all-grain. It will make your beer incredibly better, and IMHO, is the biggest step from taking ‘homebrew’ to ‘beer’.

If nothing else, stick the fermenter in a water bath, which will help to minimize big swings. After 4-5 days, you can just move it to a 68 degree place (you can probably also take it out of the water bath at this point for convenience) and let it sit for another week or two to finish up.

good luck on the dubbel and future brews-

6

That’s EXTREMELY warm for a lager strain. Is S-23 known for being a hybrid yeast? I agree with the others though. Wait patiently for your hydrometer and test the gravity. I wouldn’t be too shocked if you reach FG that quickly with the ferm temp where it was. You may want to consider additional conditioning time for this one.

7

see my signature line for way to keep the temps down.

Other wise you have been given some great advice.

8

From what I gather, S-23 is known as being a pain in the @$$ yeast!

I haven’t heard of using a lager yeast for a dubbel. Did that come with a kit? I know Fermentis makes a dry yeast for Belgians, I think T-58 or maybe S-33. Weird they wouldn’t give you one of those in the kit.

For dubbels and most Belgians other than saisons, I usually like to use a proprietary yeast of a brewery around me (Brewer’s Art), but I’ve heard good things about WY 3787, 3522, 1214 and equivalent WL strains.

9

Yeah, it came with the Dubbel kit from More Beer!. We’re just getting into ranching our own yeast, so we definitely will be getting the good stuff from now on, and skipping the lager yeast for the Dubbel for now.

Though it’s interesting to read that with some of the old farm house ales from southern Belgium, back in the day, they’d sometimes use ale yeast strains, and sometimes use lager yeast strains, if I’m not mistaken. Even at higher temps for both, from what I can tell.

Anyway, still waiting on that hydrometer, but the beer has gurgled a few times without being bumped, so hopefully that’s a good sign, and some of that O2 is being pushed back out of it. Fingers crossed.

10

OK, so. FG is at 1.020. That’s fairly close to our target of ~ 1.018.

Based on some of your collective advise, I’m assuming we leave it for another week or so (it has been fermenting for only about 9 days), then check the gravity again. If we knock it down just a bit, then we bottle condition the hell out of it? If so, how long is too long in the fermentor? Should we rack it to a secondary, first? Do we pitch more yeast, or add yeast nutrients?

How do we know whether it needs months to condition in the bottle? What off flavors are we looking for?

Maybe these are the wrong questions to ask, I submit to you, great homebrewers.

Thanks.

11

My advice is that patience will pay off on this brew. It’s your choice to condition in the bottle or the fermenter but give it a least a month before you try it.
Good luck and update this thread after you’ve tasted it. I’m curious to know how the s-23 lager yeast came out at ale temps.
:cheers:

12

Your beer is probably done. You can leave it on the yeast easily for a month if you like with no problems. If you are in need of your fermenter you can transfer to secondary, or you can bottle. You should not need to add yeast or nutrient at bottling unless you age it for several months. If you do age for months, it is wise to add yeast at bottling but you won’t need nutrient.

The off flavors that you might look for are Fusel Alchohols which in my experience have a solvent like or alcoholic flavor. You will need to taste it to know what your next move is. :cheers:

13

You can easily leave it in the fermenter for 1 month +. I would let it sit for 3-4 weeks, then bottle. Just keep the air lock filled.

Or you can let it sit for 2 weeks, transfer to a second vessel and let it sit there for 2 weeks.

You will have to decide what way works for you.

The beer is done so there is no need for new yeast or nutrients. “Secondary fermentation” occurs when you add a new yeast (brett or lactos) or add new sugars (honey/fruit). Otherwise it’s bulk aging.

How long to bottle age it is up to your taste buds.