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Spicy Saison Extract Recipe Help

I’m trying to setup a recipe for a Saison similar to how Hinterland’s Saison tastes - its got a nice crisp/lemony aroma with a pepper taste. Their brewer said that it has coriander, peppercorns, lemon peel and lemongrass in it, but that’s as specific as he’ll get. I’ve set up the following based on NB’s kit and some others I’ve seen online.

0.5 Briess Carmel 20L - 20 min steep
6 lbs Gold Malt Syrup @ 60 min
1 lb gold dry malt extract @ 60 min
2.5 oz Styrian Goldings @ 60 min
0.5 oz Styrian Goldings @ 15 min
1 oz crushed peppercorns @ flameout
1 oz crused coriander @ flameout
zest of 2 lemons @ flameout

I had planned on using 3711, but I now see NB is out of it. I’ve got another LHBS to check out, but I haven’t had much luck with them. Since I feel I may be stuck with 3724, thats why I added in the coriander / peppercorn?

If I managed to find the 3711, how much pepper flavor will that give off? Would I still need the additions?

What would WLP565 add to the beer?

As an FYI, I just tried Dupont and it is not what I’m looking for. I also wasn’t much of a fan of Sofie. Neither had the pepper taste I’m after that Hinterland has.

Any help is appreciated!

As a follow-on, one thing I’m considering is whether or not I should replace some of the gold extract with wheat and whether or not to add in some sugar or honey to help dry out the beer.

All I know is that I tried New Belgium’s Pink Peppercorn IPA and WHOA was that a long pint :slight_smile: Unless you’re looking to drink straight spice I’d find a more mellow yeast (particularly one that doesn’t give off those clove flavors).

IME, 3711’s “peppery” aspect isn’t like black peppercorns, so if the Saison you’re looking to for inspiration is really peppery and spicy, you’ll need actual pepper to achieve it. And I think you will make a better Saison if you use the lightest DME possible, not the gold stuff - all that extract is likely to leave you with an FG above 1.010, even with 3711, so get it as fermentable as possible.

Shadetree - how can I get the FG down real low and still get the same characteristics if I move to the pilsner LME? I was also thinking of moving it to all DME instead of LME, would that help out?

I also want it pretty dry. Perhaps I’ll replace some of the LME with DME, then add in some honey or sugar to get it easily fermentable.

btw - I did find a source for 3711. Could you give me a good simple idea of what its taste is like? Is there a commercial version that is known to use it available that I could pick up in Wisconsin?

For a dry finish you need to stay away from crystal malts and the colored extracts and use some sugar. Can you do a mini-mash? If so, a couple lbs of Vienna or Munich, maybe some Belgian Pale or a small amount of Belgian Aromatic, even a little of a darker crystal like Special B or its English equivalent, would add some depth and color to the light extract without raising the FG. You could also use one of the less processed sugars, like piloncillo or jaggery, to add some color and a little character. These would all take you on a different path than Dupont, too.

IME, 3711 fermented on the cooler end of the range (low to mid 60s) adds a fair amount of clove, some spiciness that “peppery” describes best but isn’t hot on the tongue, more the flavor of pepper, and it makes the lowest FGs of any regular yeast that I’ve used. It’s sort of one-dimensional in that it doesn’t add a whole lot of nuance and it’s not as tasty as 3724 for example (but it’s super-dependable and if you’re adding the spices you want it makes a good base to work from). I don’t know of any commercial examples, unfortunately.

Thanks. Unfortunately I do not have the ability to do a mini-mash, or at least I don’t think so. So I’m rather stuck with a plain extract batch.

In regards to the taste of 3724, is that the fruity type flavor that most beligians have? I really want the yeast to show through on this, so that’s my primary driver on the recipe.

[quote=“BrewTownMKE”]Unfortunately I do not have the ability to do a mini-mash, or at least I don’t think so[/quote]If you can steep, you can mini-mash - heat 2 qts of water per lb of crushed grain to ~160F, put the grain in the same bag you use for steeping, add the bag to the water, stir the grain really well, and check the temp. If it’s in the 148-152F range, you’re good, if not, add ice or a little heat to get it in range, then wrap the kettle with something insulating (a blanket works well) and let it sit for 30 minutes. Check the temp and if needed, add some heat while stirring the grain in the bag. Wrap again, let sit 30 minutes, stir the grain, then pull the bag out and allow to drain back into the kettle (or into another pot on the side). Add the rest of your water and then proceed like an extract batch.[quote=“BrewTownMKE”]In regards to the taste of 3724, is that the fruity type flavor that most belgians have?[/quote]It’s the Dupont strain, which you said you tried and didn’t like, but it’s the gold standard for the style.

That seems to be a lot of coriander in my opinion. I like to measure my coriander in grams rather than oz.

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