I have been thinking about going in the direction of all grain without the bag since it seems I have most of the stuff to do it without the BIAB method. So i started wondering, do you get significant benefit from mashing and then sparging as opposed to just adding the full 7 gallons of water to the mash tun? Is it that I will lose efficiency? Seems like the full volume mash would be an easier method. What is it that I am not understanding?
And also, if I have an all grain recipe, how do I convert that to a no sparge recipe? Do I just add 25% to each grain?
“No-sparge” brewing is a valid technique. I kind of like the idea, as I believe it will maximize malt flavor since you’re essentially getting just a butt-ton of “first runnings” with no dilution due to a sparge. However, the average efficiency for no-sparge brewing is around 50-55%. Sparging is necessary to improve average efficiency into the 70s or 80s. Certainly you can try no-sparge brewing if your mash tun is big enough to account for the extra grains. On your first try, assume your efficiency at about 52-53% (use homebrewing software for this), then adjust from there on future batches. You are on the right track, but you’ll probably need roughly 40% extra malt as compared to a standard ~75% efficiency to account for the reduced efficiency.
Batch sparging is just about as fast and easy as no sparge and increases your efficiency significantly. Try it!
So with the batch sparge I just use a normal mash and then after I drain it I add the rest of the water volume and then drain again?
Yes, it is truly as easy as that. Well, that and the vorlauf – collect the first 2 quarts of runnings that always have a few chunks of stuff in it, and pour that back on top of the mash to keep the chunks out of the boil. But other than that, yes. Easy peasy.
Yep, the first runnings are subject to grain absorption and mashtun deadspace, so the water amount you add to the mash will not be equal to the amount you get out. The sparge (or rinse) should be a 1:1 water in water out. So what I do is run my first runnings into my kettle which has a sight glass and that tells me how much more water i need to get to my full volume. I add exactly that amount to the mashtun for sparge and I get my total boil volume.
Yep. Takes maybe 5-8 min, more than no sparge. And with batch sparging I’m getting mid 80s efficiency.
Yep, the first runnings are subject to grain absorption and mashtun deadspace, so the water amount you add to the mash will not be equal to the amount you get out. The sparge (or rinse) should be a 1:1 water in water out. So what I do is run my first runnings into my kettle which has a sight glass and that tells me how much more water i need to get to my full volume. I add exactly that amount to the mashtun for sparge and I get my total boil volume.[/quote]
You are truly a pragmatic brewer after my own heart! Good on ya!
Yep. Takes maybe 5-8 min, more than no sparge. And with batch sparging I’m getting mid 80s efficiency.[/quote]
Maybe I do it wrong but it takes me more than 8 min. I drain the first runnings then I add water calculated to bring the temp up to 170deg. Sits for 10 minuets then recirculate and drain. About 15 or twenty minuets.
There’s no advantage to letting the sparge water sit for 10 minutes before running off. Add sparge water, stir, and immediately vorlauf and runoff if desired for same results.
+1 to batch sparge. Better efficiency for sure.
What do you mean when talking about efficiency?
I believe there is a finite number of sugars extracted from the grain during the mash process. The idea is to recover the greatest percentage of those sugars off the grain bed. 100% would be all the available sugars 50% would be half. To get the highest efficiency you want to get the most sugar without diluting your wort which is why some people don’t believe in the sparge part. My theory is you “sparge” or rinse with the least amount of water. The question is how much water is that.
I ferment 5.5 gal, so when I use 1.6qrts/lb that figures 4 gal on a 10lb malt bill. At 1.1-1.2 gal absorbtion rate that’s apprx.3 gal 1rst runnings. I need 7 gal total for my evap rate, so 4 gal sparge. After cool down and leaving the sludge behind, and I run it thru a sanitized paint strainer I’m close to my 5.5 gal. This seems to work for me. If that doesn’t sound right to the experts, I need to know.
I kinda go the other way. I shoot for 4 gallon 1st running and use three gallons to sparge. I wonder if it makes a difference. I tried draining after chilling thorough a cheesecloth but switched to just a strainer again I wonder if it makes a difference. My volumes are about the same as yours.
I see the initial aq ratio in qrts/lb, then subtract absorbtion rate thru the grain. I wouldn’t think there would be any diff as long as you know what your final volume will be after the evap rate at boil end. I use 1.5 -2 qrts/lb and don’t see any diff. At 1.5 and above I always have a really nice flowing runoff as
I’ll bet you do too. Hate slow runoffs or getting stuck.
One of the issues with sparging from what I have read so far is that you get more tendency to extract tannins. For those who have experience, do you agree or disagree? Also, would the tannin extraction be less if the batch sparge was done with cold water? If we are not trying to convert any sugars for the sparge, but rather just rinse the sugars from the grain, I would think that cold water would do just as well. Thoughts? Opinions? hypotheses?
Two reasons 1) there are some types of sugars still left in the grain that need 68deg to convert. The trick is to tweak those out but don’t over sparge. 2) adding cold water will thicken the wort and slow your drain.
I personally have never extracted tannins thru a sparge, and I hope others will chime in on this. I sparge with 180-185 deg. water, and stir it and the temp will drop a little to. IME I’d stay away from cold water, you want to hot water rinse off all the sugars that are left on those grains, to get the most out of your extraction.
