In 2012, I don’t think you can call it an IPA if it isn’t dry-hopped. And in my opinion, you should have at least 2 oz of hops at flameout (preferably 3-4). I am moving away from several “hop blend” additions to fewer additions of a single varietal. Maybe something like 30 min CTZ, 15 min Cascade 5 min Cascade, Flameout CTZ/Cascade, Dry hop crystal/Cascade?
[quote=“skyler”]Though I haven’t brewed with Bravo, I had read that it was similar in bittering quality to Nugget or CTZ. And since Denny says they essentially FWH their bittering hops, maybe you should just FWH a bunch of CTZ or Nugget (or Bravo) and then go for the late additions of Chinook, CTZ, and Amarillo, then dry hop with Citra, chinook, CTZ, and Amarillo…
[/quote]
To me, Bravo is much more like Magnum…smoother than CTZ. We used Bravo as a sub for Magnun in the alt we brewed at Beer Camp.
[quote=“Steppedonapoptop”]EDAWGWV, was kind enough to let me post my take on a Rye IPA. I too really enjoy the Ruthless and wanted to make a rye I can call my own and make it a mainstay at the house. I would greatly appreciate any input both good and bad. I know EDAWGWV, me and others will benefit.
Hopbursted Rye IPA
SRM: 11.9 SRM, IBU: 50.9, OG: 1.071 SG, FG: 1.020, BU:GU: 0.719, Est ABV: 6.8 %,
EE%: 65.00 %, Batch: 5.00 gal
Grain
10.5 lbs 2row
2.5 lbs rye
1 lb wheat
12 oz munich
10 oz caramel 60
1.8 oz chocolate malt
Hop Additions
1oz Cascade, 1/2oz Columbus @30min
3/4oz Cascade, 1/2oz Columbus @20min
1/2oz Cascade, 1/4oz Columbus @15min
1/2oz Cascade, 1/4oz Columbus @10min
11/2oz Cascade, 1/4oz Columbus @10min
1/2oz Cascade, 1/4oz Columbus @flameout
WY1272
If needed, I also have on hand, Super Galena, Liberty, Crystal, Perle, Fuggles and Saaz.
Thanks, Mike[/quote]
I would eliminate (or drastically reduce) the wheat.
Steppedon, note I dropped the wheat too. Consensus is that its not necessary. Looks tasty.
My SRM is calculated around 14 (it varies w/ software and efficiency). Do you think SN’s actual product is closer to 11?
@ Denny, thank you for the tip. By eliminating the wheat, would you increase any other part of the bill?
@ eda, I can only guess it’s somewhere between 11 and 14???
Actually losingthe wheat brought my IBU’s to SN’s level +/- but my OG dropped some. Not a bad compromise however.
Thanks, Mike
[quote=“Steppedonapoptop”]@ Denny, thank you for the tip. By eliminating the wheat, would you increase any other part of the bill?
@ eda, I can only guess it’s somewhere between 11 and 14???[/quote]
If you want to keep the same OG, replace the wheat with a lb. of pale malt.
Thank you. How does my hop recipe look? Would you change any or add any other type based on what I have on hand?
I wonder if SN uses crystal rye in Ruthless. I’ve been messing with Fawcett Crystal Rye L 70-80 and i think it lends more of that rye mouthfeel and taste in smaller quantities. E.G. where you would use 3 lbs of regular malted rye you could use .75 or 1 lb of crystal rye. I’ve used it in pales, bocks, and IPA’s with alot of success. Plus i think the color of Ruthless is pretty damn close to what i get out of crystal rye.
Can someone estimate the SRM in Ruthless? I have my current attempt at 14.5 SRM or so.
Too high?
AFAIK, no crystal rye.
Any update on this? How did your recipe turn out and such?
I was wondering the same thing myself. On page 2 I posted my crack at a recipe that I plan on brewing next Saturday. In the meantime, I’ve bought up a bit of SN’s Ruthless and hope to have a couple around as a comparison. I planned on pitching 1272 but just got a pack of 1450. Which one should I pitch?
1272 is much closer to SN’s character
I brewed this about 10 days ago. I took a sample last night and had a ruthless there to do taste comparisons. Its hard to judge right now because the beer has a month or so to go but I think the rye taste is right on and the hop character seems pretty close. I really liked the hop profile, but I am having a minor love affair with citra and amarillo right now so I am biased.
As far as color, the sample of my brew seemed more brown and less red. However, there was still a bit of yeast in suspension. I’ll know more later.
When this beer is finished, I will post comparison pictures and tasting notes.
I live in Charleston, West Virginia – not a hotbed of beer geeks, but this beer is selling like hotcakes around here nonetheless. I drove to three different places the other night to get a six pack. Two were sold out.
:cheers:
Here is an update on this attempt to “clone” SN’s Ruthless Rye. Other than the color (mine is darker) this recipe turned out to be really close and it is a great tasting, balanced beer. It has been in the keg for about three weeks and it is really coming into its own.
OG: 1.060
FG: 1.011
Here is a color comparison:
The homebrew is on the right in the top pic and the left in bottom.
The SN has more caramel malt flavor than this recipe. Mine has more roasted malt flavor. They are both nicely balanced and leave a clean finish.
The hop profile is very similar. I hopped this one to 60 IBUs and dry hopped with 1z of (edit) Cascade and 1z of Amarillo. That dry hop flavor and aroma really comes through nicely.
The lacing looks about the same.
:cheers:
I really love this beer and got several compliments from other beer nerds when I served it at a party last weekend.
To try to get closer to the SN version, I would use just a little more C60 (or some other crystal) and probably cut the Munich and the Chocolate malt altogether. However, I’m not sure I would change anything.
On the whole, it didn’t come out JUST like Ruthless, but it is quite similar and very nice. I am proud of this beer and will brew again.
I wish I would have seen this thread earlier. I love me some Ruthless, but I would have told you to cut out the chocolate malt. I have overdone chocolate too many times. 
Still sounds like it would make a good beer. Cheers!
:cheers:
As I read through this thread I also immediately thought to cut out the chocolate but I is awesome to brew and taste and re-brew! Also great pictures. Well done.
I’m a week away from my version of Rye IPA being fully carbed. I used an ounce of chocolate and I believe it helped achieve the color I was shooting for. I intend on using a side by side comparison with Ruthless as well. One thing I noted right away is rye flavor not as intense as Ruthless. However it is there and apparent and I think its subtlety is going to make this batch very appealing to everyone.
Out of curiosity, how does Northern Brewer’s “Rye P.A.” recipe compare to Ruthless? I’m a novice brewer that hasn’t yet graduated to all-grain and I was thinking of trying out NB’s Rye PA partial mash kit as my third batch. I’m not all that familiar with rye beers, but I’ve enjoyed Drakes’, SN Ruthless, and Alpine Nelson and would like to attempt a rye IPA. The OP’s recipe sounds great and if I can somehow do a partial mash or extract + specialty grain of it, I just may give it a shot. However, it might just be simpler if I buy the NB kit and call it a day.
