[quote=“blatz”][quote=“Beersk”]
for a black IPA i’d say late addition or steeping is practically a must.[/quote][/quote]
+1 You want to minimize flavor pick up while maximizing color. And that’s why I don’t think Cascadian Ale is a real style, but that’s a whole different can of worms.
[quote=“blatz”][quote=“tom sawyer”]
If you look at your hypothetical adjustments and it seems crazy, chances are it is [/quote]
good point lennie.
I use Bru’n Water now instead of Palmer and have been amazed at how much less the recommended additions are.[/quote]
Yes Martin Brungard incorporated Kai Troester’s observations about the roasted malts and acidity, I haven’t used the spreadsheet but I think its probably got the highest chance for success.
[quote=“blatz”][quote=“tom sawyer”]
If you look at your hypothetical adjustments and it seems crazy, chances are it is [/quote]
good point lennie.
I use Bru’n Water now instead of Palmer and have been amazed at how much less the recommended additions are.[/quote]
I strongly agree. My water performs drastically different in the MLT than it does on a spreadsheet. I don’t think Palmer is the problem, however. I get two distinct water sources in DC, my spring/summer water and fall/winter waters are very different. The DC water report averages them and that really screws up Plamer’s ruler-o-gram.
Subsequently, I’ve let my tap water do what it wants to do in the MLT–which is, make beer–and I use kettle additions to “flavor” the hops. I find I have more control this way.
Yes and actually measuring pH if you’re worried about it is probably the best way to go. I do use some salts to adjust pH, always with an eye towards the flavor. I can tell from the kind of break I get if I’m in a good range.
[quote=“blatz”]
yeah, the funny thing is exactly what narvin is saying is why I feel its effective - much easier to control pH in the 6-14SRM range (for most people’s water) while not having to add oodles of chalk to the mash. I’m still experimenting with it to see which way i like the best, but my results with the late or steeping method have been very favorable.
for a black IPA i’d say late addition or steeping is practically a must.[/quote]
I haven’t made a black IPA but I’d definitely try the sparge steeping (or cold steeping) method specifically to tone down the roasty flavor. For a stout, I like the roast character I get right now 
And I agree that it doesn’t make any sense to add chalk to your mash and then still need to acidify your sparge water if you can just add dark grains later. I was just surprised to find out that I didn’t need any chalk in my mash, even with the roasted grains in there. Kai’s spreadsheet predicted a pH of 5.35, and Martin’s 5.2, yet I hit 5.5. AJ Delange was the one who said to try it without chalk, and I’m glad I did since the empirical evidence backed him up.
Did you used to add more chalk when you put all the grains in the mash? I wonder if that was making things worse?
I did - though to what degree, I am not sure - its been a while.
I am leaning toward doing a full mash of all the grains this weekend in light of this conversation to see what happens - Bru’n water has me only adding 5gms of chalk to 12gal of mash water toi hit 5.3 at room temp - I think a couple years back I would have added double that plus baking soda when following some other guidance.
Yup, bingo!
Yup, bingo![/quote]
Too bad by then it’s too late
Yup, bingo![/quote]
Too bad by then it’s too late[/quote]
Theres always next time!
I did - though to what degree, I am not sure - its been a while.
I am leaning toward doing a full mash of all the grains this weekend in light of this conversation to see what happens - Bru’n water has me only adding 5gms of chalk to 12gal of mash water toi hit 5.3 at room temp - I think a couple years back I would have added double that plus baking soda when following some other guidance.[/quote]
Maybe check out Kai’s spreadsheet too… it predicted a higher pH (closer, but still off) than Bru’n water for my stout.
If your beer sucks, don’t blame me 
Do you have a pH meter? The strips were way off for me with all the roasted grain for some reason. If you have a meter you trust, you could dough in without any chalk and then add it if you need it.
