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Parti-gyle 2nd wort/batch question

I was wondering is there a way of having a clue what the second batch will yield in OG?

For example I was wanting to brew jamils wee heavy recipe. Which is as follows. I now that I will not get 75% efficiency 1.113 OG with this size grain bill. his book says I will get a SG of 1.099 for the wee heavy.

I however would want to try for the first time a parti-gyle with the grains after doing the wee heavy. Any idea of what SG I would be for the second batch? Just really looking for ball park, so I know how to hop it. Thanks.

Muddy

Wee Heavy
Strong Scotch Ale

Recipe Specs

Batch Size (G): 5.5
Total Grain (lb): 22.500
Total Hops (oz): 1.88
Original Gravity (OG): 1.113 (°P): 26.5
Final Gravity (FG): 1.028 (°P): 7.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 11.10 %
Colour (SRM): 15.8 (EBC): 31.1
Bitterness (IBU): 28.3 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill

20.000 lb American 2-Row (88.89%)
1.000 lb Crystal 40 (4.44%)
0.500 lb Honey Malt (2.22%)
0.500 lb Munich I (2.22%)
0.250 lb Chocolate, Pale (1.11%)
0.250 lb Crystal 120 (1.11%)

I did find this about partigyle:

Batches split into two equal volumes have a different ratio: ~58% of the extract will be in the first half of the runoff and ~42% in the second half.

What efficiency do I use for this calculation? 75% or do I use the full amount 100%

any and all info would be greatly appreciated.

Broadly speaking, assuming equal runoffs, the second batch will have between 1/4 (at very low gravity) and 1/2 (very high gravity) the gravity of the first. So in this case it should be around 13°P (1.053). http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti … g_Analysis

you sir are the tops. thanks a ton. Really worth it. That would get me a nice little session beer. Versus just pitching the grains in the compost.

Since you will be brewing two batches, it is probably safe to assume an efficiency in the 75 to 80% range if that is what you typically get on regular gravity brews. This is in total, i.e., if you were brewing a 10 gallon batch from the 22 pounds of grain.

One rule of thumb I have heard is that you get 2/3rds of your gravity in the first 1/2 of the runnings, and 1/3rd of your gravity in the second 1/2 of the runnings.

The other rule of thumb I have heard is that you get 50% of your gravity points in the first 1/3rd of the runnings, and 50% of your gravity in the second 2/3rds of your runnings.

So, using the first rule, for a 22 pound mash, assuming 80% efficiency and 37 points per pound of grain:

22 lbs x 37 points/lb = 814 points total theoretical gravity yield

814 points x 80% efficiency = 651 gravity points extracted in 10 gallons

651 points x 67% = 431 points in the first 5 gallons, and 220 points in the second 5 gallons

431 points / 5 gallons = OG of 1.086 for the first batch

220 points / 5 gallons = OG of 1.044 for the second batch

Will the Wee Heavy be from first runnings only?

Although I can’t speak from experience, I’ve read that it is recommended to add some specialty grains to the second wort of a parti-gyle. I don’t have Gordon Strong’s “Brewing Better Beer” book in front of me but he has a section on there where he talks about parti-gyles and his recommendations.

Something to consider when developing your 2nd wort recipe. Please let me know what you end up doing. I have a slurry of Scottish Ale and I was thinking of doing Jamil’s Wee Heavy recipe and let it condition to next winter. I hadn’t considered a parti-gyle.

Edited to include more stuff.

I normally do 1.25 qrts/lb. So with those figures, no. I would have basically 7 gals of saach vol - 3.375(water grain loss) = 3.625 gal

then account for mash out vol. I normally do 2 gallons. so that would only give me 5.625gal.

If I did 1.5 qrts/lb. 8.44 - 3.375 = 5.065 gallons + 2 gallons = 7.065 gallons. Still not enough.

[quote=“muddywater_grant”][quote=“TG”]Will the Wee Heavy be from first runnings only?[/quote]I normally do 1.25 qrts/lb. So with those figures, no.[/quote]Then you’re going to have much less sugar in the grain for the small beer. Not a big deal to add more grain and mash again, but it might not be worth the effort (depending on how you manage the sparge).

Some blending of the worts before or after the boil is fair game as well, or even after fermentation if they’re similar beers like a Wee Heavy and 80/-. Cheers!!!

Would it be a bad idea to up the saach volume to make it where I get all of the wort from the first running?

22.5(1.75)/4 = 9.84 - 3.375(grain loss) = 6.465 + 2(mashout) = 8.465

Or is that a bad idea?

here is the math on 1.5

22.5(1.5)/4 = 8.4375 - 3.375 = 5.0625 + 2 = 7.0625 I guess I could pull this off.

I really should just do 9 gal. 9 - 3.375 = 5.625 - 2 = 7.625 That would be the best I think.

[quote=“muddywater_grant”]I really should just do 9 gal. 9 - 3.375 = 5.625 + 2 = 7.625 That would be the best I think.[/quote]If your MT can handle this amount of water and the grain, then do this. The two-gallon “mashout” isn’t going to get you anywhere close to 168F, so you might just add that to the mash up front and make it easier to stir.

To figure out the potential gravity of your small beer, take the kettle gravity and multiply it by the amount of wort in the grain - say it’s 1.090, you’d have 90 * 3.375 = 300 points. If you then add six gallons to the MT, the gravity will be 300 / (6 + 3.375) = 32 or 1.032. If you boil the six gallons to five, you’d have 32 * 6/5 = 1.038, not a bad small beer.

Kai has some excellent info on batch-sparge and no-sparge analysis to help you calculate your expected efficiency.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti ... g_Analysis

And a calculator: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti … _Simulator

[quote=“TG”]Kai has some excellent info on batch-sparge and no-sparge analysis to help you calculate your expected efficiency.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti ... g_Analysis

And a calculator: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti … _Simulator[/quote]

Thank you. running some numbers now.

If I saach with 9 gals. It looks like I could do a the wee heavy with a starting gravity of between 1091.4 @ 5 gal(15% evap) yield to 1113 @ 4.5gal(30%) yield.

Then the second batch would sit at 1032 @ 5.9(15% evap) to 1040.29 @ 4.9 gal (30%)

[quote=“muddywater_grant”]Then the second batch would sit at 1032 @ 5.9(15% evap) to 1040.29 @ 4.9 gal (30%)[/quote]Funny - same numbers I came up with! If a 1.038 small beer is a little on the light sige, you could increase the grain to maintain the same starting gravity with an extra gallon of water in the mash, then leave that gallon of wort in the MT to help boost the gravity (and malt character) of the small beer.

Shadetree. I really just wanted to know how/where to do the math myself.

you know, “Give a man a beer, he’ll drink for a day. Teach a man to brew, he’ll drink the rest of his life.”

[quote=“muddywater_grant”]I really just wanted to know how/where to do the math myself.[/quote]I figured - that’s why I told you how to do it yourself instead of using a spreadsheet. :wink:

I found this article & table (which is embedded in the article) from Brewing Techniques by Randy Mosher to be pretty helpful. Cheers!!!

Article:

http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.2/mosher.html

Table:

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.2/moshertable.html

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