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Another one off that I would like to replicate. I took about 3 gallons of a saison I made and after it was fermented on 3711 I dumped in a 1/2 gallon of cranberry juice and the dregs of 2 bottles of a crooked stave. Tried it today and my oh my. I don’t want this to run out. I think I’ll do it again but I’m Leary about using my barrel again it’s quite unpredictable. Not necessarily a bad thing. Any input from the gang is always appreciated

I find dregs from previous batches to be a good option for recreating batches, since the amount of culture in a barrel can get stronger and stronger the more batches you run through there. Or if you save the slurry. Just a bit off the bottom of a bottle.

So your saying not to inoculate the barrel. Just add a squirt of dregs from the keg to a fresh keg and let her ride

Is it a question of “too much” is not always good? Perhaps there has been enough data collected to show an over pitch of the “sour” varieties is on the same parallel as Ale yeast? I know I’m no help on this topic… But I do like to read, and since this is a related subject, I would like to follow the discussion… Sneezles61

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I wouldn’t worry too much about pitching on the yeast cake. Personally I would try a different saison yeast to mix it up. The Yeast Bay has some spectacular saison blends. I find 3711 French Saison just meh.

Not to concerned with the sach yeast I use it’s the secondary bugs that come through in this beer. But yes 3711 is a little mild on its own.

The souring bugs are a different animal literally. They are more virulant reproducer I believe so you don’t need much. Although I do like to stress the Belgian style ales with an underpitching.

For some reason I skipped over reading that you added dregs. Which Crooked Stave beer did you use? I’m no expert but having used Lambic bug blends I know that the proportions are important. IMO you will not get the same beer adding to this yeast cake. You can harvest and try repitching a smaller amount. If the sour is really pinpoint perfect for you I would hazard to guess that the cranberry juice has a large impact in that and that the dregs are a secondary player.

I used the sour Rose dregs. I racked this off the yeast cake before adding the cranberry juice and dregs to a keg. I tasted this a month in and didn’t have any sourness from the juice so pretty sure the sach fermented the juice. The dregs did their magic in the next few months.

Well it wasn’t the Brett in the dregs that made it sour. I would make a guess that it wasn’t Lacto that soured in a secondary fermentation. Maybe some Pediococcus?

I definitely taste the Brett and it did sour. Why do you not think the lacto soured it. I added the juice for food for the lacto. It must have caught some of the sugars before the sach got them all. That’s how I thought it works

Brett does not sour, it funkifies. The question in a secondary fermentation is what is left to eat and at what ph. Lacto gets crushed early on by hops and ph. Some lacto is inhibited with as low a 2 IBUs. So since this was a primary fermentation of Saison and the dregs where at secondary there is not much left to sour or funkify, That is why I assumed the juice did most of the souring. When I make my lambic the sour cherries definitely do most of the souring. The bugs create some lactic acid that balances and rounds out the sour cherries and as it ages the Brett compliments the sour with earthiness and funk. I use only aged leaf hops with very low AA for my yearly Lambic. I also add some unfermentables for the Brett to get a chance to use because the S. cerevisiae will outcompete the Brett otherwise.

It is low IBU and I added the juice for “food” I make alot of Brett beer so I know that taste. This does have a definite sourness so maybe like you say after the sugar fermented I’m tasting the sourness from the cranberry

It is a great mystery. I have to admit I am very keen on your topic because I cannot seem to dial in the perfect amounts of things. I am psyched you brought this up because it’s almost Lambic season in my apartment :). I add my cherries at secondary as well and that’s really when things get interesting. I have played around with a lot of fruit concentrates and Brett. So far my favorite (not straight fruit) is pomegranate syrup, not the juice, but the juice reduced to syrup. It is sold here in middle eastern groceries but I imagine you can get it online if your store doesn’t have it.

I’ve been thinking about how I made this beer. What I did was after primary fermentation I pulled off a 1/2 gallon and added the 1/2 juice to that with the dregs. After about a month I blended it back in and kegged that’s where it sat for six months. That makes more sense since it would nock down the ABV and IBU so the dregs could work

Some strains of Brett will sour slightly but not like lacto will. It produces Acetic acid that will lower ph. When its exposed aerobic conditions it produces large amounts Acetic acid souring and turning it to vinegar

Sorry, missed this over the weekend. I think you’ll have a lot less control if you let it age in the barrel, with O2 ingress, more active cultures, etc. Not that it will be a bad beer by any means, but there’s a good chance of it being quite a bit different. Either run it through the barrel briefly (with another beer waiting in the wings) and age in the keg or glass, or just give it some dregs in secondary to simulate adding the dregs from the commercial bottle. My 2 cents (or perhaps less).

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