Multiple regulators for long distance

beeristhemindkiller · October 6, 2011, 4:57pm

I’m designing a cold room that will run my beer lines varying lengths into my house from outside. The lengths could vary between 15 and 35 feet for each of the kegs based on placement in the cold room. I’m sure I will have to turn up the CO2 pressure to make up for the pressure drop on the long distance. Since the lines can be significantly different in length, do you guys think I’ll need a 4 or 5 way regulator to set different pressures for each line?

Would dispensing at say 25psi in order to push it the distance I need tend to over-carbonate the beer in the keg over the weeks it’s being dispensed?

Thanks for the help!

denny · October 6, 2011, 5:29pm

I think you;re going to want to use nitrogen, not CO2, to push the beer that distance.

bpbco · October 6, 2011, 6:42pm

[quote=“beeristhemindkiller”]
Would dispensing at say 25psi in order to push it the distance I need tend to over-carbonate the beer in the keg over the weeks it’s being dispensed?[/quote]

Yes, like Denny said I think you want to look into using Nitrogen.

beeristhemindkiller · October 6, 2011, 6:59pm

Interesting. Is that because it stays in solution easier than CO2?

Do you think I need multiple regulators or am I fine with just a normal distribution block?

denny · October 6, 2011, 7:37pm

No, just the opposite. It doesn’t go into solution as easily as CO2. If you use enough CO2 pressure to drive the beer that distance, the beer will absorb CO2 and become overcarbonated.

nyakavt · October 6, 2011, 8:00pm

You could just use larger diameter beverage tubing to reduce the pressure drop in the line. With 1/4" line and 12 psi at the reg, you’re looking at a pour rate of 100 oz/min with 35’ of line, which is about 9 seconds to fill a pint. If you stick with 3/16" line, the 35’ will take more like 20 seconds to fill at 12 psi.

beeristhemindkiller · October 10, 2011, 4:47pm

Thanks for the info, guys. I might have to do some experimenting if I can get my hands on a nitro keg.

You’ve all given me a good starting point though.

nighthawk · October 12, 2011, 1:44am

[quote=“beeristhemindkiller”]Thanks for the info, guys. I might have to do some experimenting if I can get my hands on a nitro keg.

You’ve all given me a good starting point though.[/quote]

I hope you meant to type nitro tank. Your beer will work with either co2 or nitro/co2 mix in your current kegs.

Also, a normal nitro tank has a different thread to them. So you need to take that into account. Some places will fill a co2 tank with a nitro mix. But they can not put as much gas in as the pressure rating for nitrogen is higher.

You can simply change the post on your regulator to match the tank you are using.

Nitrogen------cga 580
CO2------------cga 320

Or this adapter can be used.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brew ... apter.html

central_wa_brewing · October 14, 2011, 3:47am

Like others stated earlier, N2 is an inert gas so the N2 tank has a female top to it and yes nitrogen does not saturate liquid as readily as CO2. If you go with beer gas(approx. 75% N2, 25% CO2), you may be faced with charging your keg with CO2 and then switching over to beer gas to push it down the line. But this means you’ll have to recharge the kegs over a period of time(correct?). This is just my $.02 based on experience with both gasses. Beer gas cylinders are sold by the volume, not pounds like CO2 and I would suggest getting the bottle that is about the same physical size as the 20# CO2. Beer gas goes fast.

beeristhemindkiller · October 17, 2011, 5:03pm

Oh yes, that was defintely a typo. I meant cylinder/tank.

Thanks again.

positive_voodoo · October 18, 2011, 12:55am

We have a local tap room here that has about 40 beers on tap all the time. The keg room is separated from the bar by about the same distance you are talking about, probably about 25 feet (it’s pretty neat, it’s glass so everyone can see the kegs and equipment).

If you have someplace like that around you, you may consider asking the brew master there if he/she will show you around, and what they use for equipment and gas mixture.

Just a thought…

560sdl · October 18, 2011, 1:13am

I design bars and restaurants for a living and it can get pretty complicated. Basically for any distance they bundle lines wrapped in a glycol chilling system to keep the lines cold. They are perfectionists at line balancing. They have nitrogen generators that do the basic pushing I believe and large refillable Co2 tanks, but I am not sure how the C02 and nitrogen work together. I will have to ask the beer guy.

beeristhemindkiller · October 27, 2011, 2:18pm

Positive Voodoo: where is that bar? I’d like to google some pics if I can. I’ve got a couple of places around here that might be able to give some tips so I’ll check with them too.

560sdl: Glycol wrapped lines, huh? It seems a little excessive but I guess in it’s better than the alternative where your beer gets hot. I was planning on using A/C ducting wrapped with lots of excess insulation. A gycol systems seems expensive but I guess it would only have to be a small one since it’s just maintaining temperature. What do you mean by line balancing? Basic maintenance of temperature and appropriate carbonation from source to tap?

560sdl · October 27, 2011, 2:45pm

[quote=“beeristhemindkiller”]Positive Voodoo: where is that bar? I’d like to google some pics if I can. I’ve got a couple of places around here that might be able to give some tips so I’ll check with them too.

560sdl: Glycol wrapped lines, huh? It seems a little excessive but I guess in it’s better than the alternative where your beer gets hot. I was planning on using A/C ducting wrapped with lots of excess insulation. A gycol systems seems expensive but I guess it would only have to be a small one since it’s just maintaining temperature. What do you mean by line balancing? Basic maintenance of temperature and appropriate carbonation from source to tap?[/quote]

Making it so you don’t get a 3/4 glass of foam every time you pour which I still am fighting with a kegerator with taps on top. By keeping the lines at serving temps and adjusting (balancing) the pressure of the nitrogen/co2, it works perfectly.

a10t2 · October 27, 2011, 2:53pm

The biggest issue here is going to be the large difference in length between the lines. The simplest thing to do would be to cut all the lines to the length of the longest so that they’ll pour uniformly. Otherwise, you could use different diameter lines for the short/long runs, or different beer gas blends. If money is no object, you can get adjustable N2/O2 mixers and set a different ratio for each line.

For a 35’ run you will absolutely want to use glycol to chill the lines. You could probably get away with water though, as long as the flow rate is high enough.