I brewed all grain Tallgrass Wheat today. Took a pre-boil gravity which came to 1.032! Wow is that low. Should be 1.048. One thing I can think of as the cause might be my mash temperature. I mashed @ 148-150 degrees. I batched sparged with 5 gallons. I ended up with 7.75 gallons after the second runnings. I used 1.2 quarts per pound of grain, or 3.5 gallons, and had 11.25 pounds of grain. The grain was milled by our host,so I can count that out as a reason for the low OG.
During the boil, I added about 2.5 gallons of boiling water to make up for boil off. I finished with 8 gallons, but I leave a gallon in the kettle because of a lot of sediment. I took another post boil gravity and have 1.032.
Would I been smart to add some DME or table sugar during the boil to bring up the gravity reading? I made the yeast starter for an OG of 1.048, now did I over pitch the yeast? 
[quote=“Bier brauer”]I brewed all grain Tallgrass Wheat today. Took a pre-boil gravity which came to 1.032! Wow is that low. Should be 1.048. One thing I can think of as the cause might be my mash temperature. I mashed @ 148-150 degrees. I batched sparged with 5 gallons. I ended up with 7.75 gallons after the second runnings. I used 1.2 quarts per pound of grain, or 3.5 gallons, and had 11.25 pounds of grain. The grain was milled by our host,so I can count that out as a reason for the low OG.
During the boil, I added about 2.5 gallons of boiling water to make up for boil off. I finished with 8 gallons, but I leave a gallon in the kettle because of a lot of sediment.I took another post boil gravity and have 1.032.
Would I been smart to add some DME or table sugar during the boil to bring up the gravity reading? I made the yeast starter for an OG of 1.048, now did I over pitch the yeast? [/quote]
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You have the same post boil gravity as your preboil gravity. That would be impossible.[/color] Except you added 2.5 gallons of water to the boil kettle to make up for trub. So you diluted your beer down. The kits are designed for a finished volume of 5 gallons. You ended with 8 gallons.
If you have some DME that would be fine to add. I would pull out 1 gallon and boil the DME in that.
Dovetailing on Nighthawk’s post, I’d offer this link to help with figuring volumes and gravity in the future, if you don’t already know about it:
http://www.brewheads.com/newvolume.phpIf your OG was 1.032 @ 8 gallons, you would have ended up with your target OG of 1.048 if you had boiled down to 5.33 gallons. I got into trouble once topping up after the boil when I shouldn’t have – a doppelbock ended up being a bock. Maybe you could filter your wort instead of leaving a gallon in the kettle? I use a paint strainer which seems to catch most of the hop material. Others will siphon to good effect.
[quote=“Dan S”]Dovetailing on Nighthawk’s post, I’d offer this link to help with figuring volumes and gravity in the future, if you don’t already know about it:
http://www.brewheads.com/newvolume.phpIf your OG was 1.032 @ 8 gallons, you would have ended up with your target OG of 1.048 if you had boiled down to 5.33 gallons. I got into trouble once topping up after the boil when I shouldn’t have – a doppelbock ended up being a bock. Maybe you could filter your wort instead of leaving a gallon in the kettle? I use a paint strainer which seems to catch most of the hop material. Others will siphon to good effect.[/quote]
If I would boil down to 5.5 I probably will end up with just over4 gallons going into the corny keg. I did try to strain the second runnings, but there was so much “fines” in the wort, it would not pass through the screen in the funnel, so I went to my fine mesh strainer. I left a gallon in the kettle, and have 6 in the carboy, and there is a lot of turb in the bottom already. Maybe I should have used 1.5 quarts instead of 1.2 quarts per pound. If you don,t mind, would you give me a rundown on your process? I am still feeling my way through this all grain. I think this is my eighth kit, not one had the same result.
Thank you for the web page. That is a great tool.
RDWHAHB. If you pitched the yeast, there’s nothing doing for this beer anymore. Live, learn, and move on. Also, remember: you’d rather have 4 gallons of what the beer is supposed to be, versus 5+ gallons of something else.
If you’re going to lose a lot of volume, you need to work backwards and build-in extra materials in earlier steps. This includes not only water, but grains, too. You’ll essentially be making 7 gallons of the beer (instead of 5.5), and “losing” 1.5 gallons more at various steps, for whatever reason. A nice piece of software like Beersmith can help you step through the process.
If you think your kettle is your biggest loss spot, then try a hop spider with a paint strainer bag, or pick up the kettle & pour the cooled beer through a mesh strainer (see: http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/doub … ainer.html ). You’re still going to lose liquid to the hop pellets & trub, though, one way or another.
Edit:
I’m not sure what you mean by “fines in the second runnings,” but read up here ( http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/ ) first. You shouldn’t have any fines entering your kettle from the mash.
A few things: You don’t want to “top-off” when doing a full boil. The goal is collect enough mash and sparge water to give you about a gallon or so MORE wort (preboil) than what you want to end with (post boil). So if you want to end up with 6 gallons post boil and you boil off say 1 gallon an hour, than you want to start your boil with about 7 gallons of wort. By topping off, you’re diluting your own wort (as and earlier post mentioned).
Don’t be overly concerned with trub getting into your fermentor. It’s not an issue. There’s no need to strain wort either pre or post boil through a screen. I did this for my first few batches to get all that “stuff” out, but it’s completely unnecessary and a giant waste of time.
With all due respect, it sounds like you need to read up a little more on all grain brewing including mash and sparge water additions, boil off, etc.
As was mentioned above, getting your hands on a piece of brewing software to calculate your volumes and gravities can be a big help (you can search the forum for posts on the various programs that people use). Prior to brew day, I’ll typically enter and tweak my recipe in BeerSmith to adjust grain weights, water volumes, hop amounts and such, all according to my set up (I batch sparge). I’ll then take careful notes on brew day and refine my process for the next time around according to what I observed. As time has gone on, the adjustments have become more minimal.
My best advice would be to take careful notes, as you seem to be doing. AG brewing can be very free form in terms of process and in the end I’ve found that there is no substitute for knowing one’s own system inside and out.
Thanks all for the great advice. Here is what I use: I have a 15 gallon kettle with a false bottom I got from more beer. I use the same kettle for mashing and boiling. It takes just over two gallons for the strike water to reach the false bottom. From there I add the calculated amount of water I need to mash. When I collect the first runnings, I drain the wort out until the level is at the false bottom, leaving the two gallons below the false bottom. I then measure the amount of wort collected,then batch sparge with enough water to make a volume of 8.5 gallons. When I collect the second runnings, I will then drain all the wort until it stops coming out the ball valve. There is a gallon of wort left below the ball valve that is so full of sediment, it can’t be strained. I just toss it. Now when I boil, I will start with about 8 gallons, but I lose almost 2.75 gallons during the boil, after cooling the wort, I will use a strainer and funnel when transferring to a 6.5 gallon carboy. Again I leave behind the wort that has all the sediment from the boil.
Sorry this is long winded, but I’m hoping maybe someone can help me out in refining this system or my method. Does anyone use a kettle with a false bottom mashing?
[quote=“Bier brauer”]…It takes just over two gallons for the strike water to reach the false bottom. From there I add the calculated amount of water I need to mash. When I collect the first runnings, I drain the wort out until the level is at the false bottom, leaving the two gallons below the false bottom. I then measure the amount of wort collected,then batch sparge with enough water to make a volume of 8.5 gallons. When I collect the second runnings, I will then drain all the wort until it stops coming out the ball valve. There is a gallon of wort left below the ball valve that is so full of sediment, it can’t be strained. I just toss it…[/quote]Sounds like you’re not using the equipment to its full potential. First, do you have a siphon (pickup tube) on the valve or is the false bottom sitting above the valve and you’re just pulling straight through the valve? You should be able to pull all but maybe a cup of wort out of the MT. Second, are you vorlaufing before starting to fill the kettle or are you straining between the MT and the kettle? Vorlaufing will result in clear wort through the entire process and you should have no sludge under the false bottom when you go to the kettle (the sludge gets put back on top of the grain bed during vorlaufing).
First off if you haven’t read Denny Conn’s article on batch sparging you need to.
http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/
From what I can tell a lot of your probelms are coming from your kettle/mash tun. First off 2.75 gals of evaporation for a five gal batch seems pretty high. You need to boil your wort but not having boiling so vigorously that its about to jump out of the kettle. However, the shape of your kettle will influence evaporation rate. A short and fat kettle will have more surface area than a tall skinny one. The greater the surface area the greater the evaporation.
Also you seem to have a lot of inefficiency in your mash. You said that you leave two gallons from the first run in your tun and you leave a gallon of wort in the tun from the second runnings. Thats a lot of precious sugars that you are leaving behind and just throwing away. My mash tun is a converted cooler that is almost identical to what Denny describes in his article. I can get every last drop of wort from it and it is always crystal clear. If your last gallon of wort is full of sediment either your false bottom is not doing its job or somehow you are not properly setting your grain bed. Once again, read Denny’s article. In it he describes how to vorlauf your wort to make it run clear and free of sediment.
Lastly, I have to agree with dobe12. Don’t sweat getting cold break into your fermenter. A couple of years ago I listened to a pod cast on that very subject. I believe it was UC Davis that did a lab experiment on trub in your fermenter. They concluded that not only did it not harm your beer but that it may have increased yeast health.
Thanks scottieBoy and shade tree. You can check out my kettle at more beer.com and see what I have as far as the size of the 15 gallon kettle. The ball valve sits below the false bottom. I do not have a pick up tube attached to the ball valve. Is that something I should have? The ball valve is open ended in the kettle.There is just over one gallon between the ball valve and the false bottom, now, there is just over one gallon between the ball valve and the kettle bottom. If I tilt the kettle, I can pour out the wort that lies between the ball valve and kettle bottom, but that gallon is so full of gunk (sorry for my lack of knowledge of what it is called) that I can’t even strain it. Same for after the boil, I usually drain until nothing comes out the ball valve,then dump the remaining gallon with all the sediment. I never heard of setting the grain, not sure what you mean. After heating the proper amount of calculated water volume above the false bottom, I just dump in the grain, stir, and watch the temperature. I worlauf through the whole mash process to help control the temperature because I mash with the burner on low. My wort is never really clear the whole time I do this. Now I can see where a pick up tube would clean up what is below the ball valve.
I have Palmers book and Papazians books, but I have to depend mostly from this forum for helpful info. Thank you in advance!
Brad
Read through section 3 of “how to brew”. There is a wealth of information in there for AG brewing. And the rest of the book is a good read also.
Bier brauer, I would recommend making some sort of pick up tube. You are leaving a lot of sugars from your mash in your kettle/tun. You can make it as fancy or as simple as you like. On my keggle, I simply have a couple of fittings with a ninety degree elbow that screw into the coupler welded in the side.
I’m wondering if your vorlauf technique is lacking which is why you have a gallon of sediment on the bottom. When vorlaufed and sparged properly, your mash will act as its own filter. When I vorlauf, I drain approximately one gallon of wort into a pitcher. Initially the wort coming out will be full of sediment but as the grain bed sets and begins to act as its own filter the wort starts to clear. I then “carefully” pour my gallon of wort back into my mash tun. I use a large spoon to diffuse the wort as I slowly pour it back in being careful to disturb the grains as little as possible. I am now ready to begin my first run of my batch sparge. After the flow of wort has slowed to a trickle, it time to add your sparge water. Stir it well to get the remaining sugars in solution. After several minutes, I vorlauf again just like the first time. Since I stirred everything up, I have to set my grain bed again.
Easy peezy. 
[quote=“ScottieBoy”]Bier brauer, I would recommend making some sort of pick up tube. You are leaving a lot of sugars from your mash in your kettle/tun. You can make it as fancy or as simple as you like. On my keggle, I simply have a couple of fittings with a ninety degree elbow that screw into the coupler welded in the side.
I’m wondering if your vorlauf technique is lacking which is why you have a gallon of sediment on the bottom. When vorlaufed and sparged properly, your mash will act as its own filter. When I vorlauf, I drain approximately one gallon of wort into a pitcher. Initially the wort coming out will be full of sediment but as the grain bed sets and begins to act as its own filter the wort starts to clear. I then “carefully” pour my gallon of wort back into my mash tun. I use a large spoon to diffuse the wort as I slowly pour it back in being careful to disturb the grains as little as possible. I am now ready to begin my first run of my batch sparge. After the flow of wort has slowed to a trickle, it time to add your sparge water. Stir it well to get the remaining sugars in solution. After several minutes, I vorlauf again just like the first time. Since I stirred everything up, I have to set my grain bed again.
Easy peezy. [/quote]
I kind of do the same. I drain about a gallon when I worlauf, but where I screw up is I just dump in the wort I took out back on top of the grains then I stir the grains to mix the warmer wort. In fact I constantly stir the grains because of mashing with a burner. I guess that is wrong to do. This may be a problem. I also think the open ended ball valve on the inside of the kettle is a major problem thus not allowing the crud below it to be removed and dumped on top of the grains. I am going to call more beer (where I bought the kettle) and see about a pick up tube. I wonder how other brewers mash using a kettle with a burner.
I really appreciate your help and feed back! Thanks so much! Maybe one of these days I will get it right.
[quote=“Bier brauer”]I drain about a gallon when I worlauf, but where I screw up is I just dump in the wort I took out back on top of the grains then I stir the grains to mix the warmer wort. In fact I constantly stir the grains because of mashing with a burner.[/quote]You vorlauf at the end of the mash and the burner should be off. Vorlauf until the wort in the bucket is clear of debris, so it might take 2-3 gallons with a false bottom. Do not stir the mash after returning the wort to the top - you want the grain near the false bottom to set a filter, so don’t disturb it. Since you’re batch-sparging, you’ll need to repeat this process after you’ve added the sparge and stirred.
Would you suggest to drain the first running until there is nothing coming out of the ball valve, or should I drain just to the false bottom? When I am nearing the end of the mash I keep the burner on to get to the 170 degree mash out temperature. When I approach the temperature, I do the vorlauf and see if the temperature rises, if it is somewhat stable, I’ll shut down the burner, continue to worlauf for the 10 minutes mash out. I think the igloo cooler type mash tuns are the best way to go, seems simple. But I have too much invested now with this kettle, I will have to learn a mashing method and apply it everytime I mash. I’m open to all suggestions.
The best thing to do is get some brewing software and take good notes and if you do the process the same every time, you will find
how much grain and water you need to start w/ for your system.
You can input how much you boil off per hour, how much trub you leave behind, etc. so you end up w/ 5.? to 6 gallons in your primary near or at your target O.G.
I don’t use a pickup in my bk and leave some wort/sludge behind, but it doesn’t matter as I have that calculated in.
For vorlauffing, I go till it comes out pretty clear, about a gallon, but this is dependent on your grist and equipment. I have a few different mash tuns w/ different filters and some work better than others but I always try to start draining slow and speeding up to what they can handle. Sometimes, if I try to run it too fast, it will start to cloud up, which is not a big deal but I prefer to slow it a little since, as I’m draining, I start my bk heating and finish before it hits a boil anyway.
[quote=“dsiets”]The best thing to do is get some brewing software and take good notes and if you do the process the same every time, you will find
how much grain and water you need to start w/ for your system.
You can input how much you boil off per hour, how much trub you leave behind, etc. so you end up w/ 5.? to 6 gallons in your primary near or at your target O.G.
I don’t use a pickup in my bk and leave some wort/sludge behind, but it doesn’t matter as I have that calculated in.
For vorlauffing, I go till it comes out pretty clear, about a gallon, but this is dependent on your grist and equipment. I have a few different mash tuns w/ different filters and some work better than others but I always try to start draining slow and speeding up to what they can handle. Sometimes, if I try to run it too fast, it will start to cloud up, which is not a big deal but I prefer to slow it a little since, as I’m draining, I start my bk heating and finish before it hits a boil anyway.[/quote]
I would love to get a brewing software program. I’m just not sure what to get. My wife bought me an Ipad last May, if Beersmith2 had a regular program for that I would buy that. I hear there is a program for the Ipad but don’t know much about it,Ibrewmaster I think? What do you recommend?
[quote=“Bier brauer”]Would you suggest to drain the first running until there is nothing coming out of the ball valve, or should I drain just to the false bottom?[/quote]I suggest that you get rid of the false bottom and instead use a 1-2" piece of stainless braid on the end of a pickup tube that draws from the outside edge of the kettle (not from the center). You’ll get rid of the dead space this way and you’ll find that vorlaufing 1-2 qts will result in clear wort. The only drawback is that now the grain will be in direct contact with the bottom of the kettle but you can minimize the chance of scorching by using a thinner mash (2+ qt/lb) which will make it easier to stir along with a low flame. A braid and a pickup will cost you about $25 total.
I see brewers talking about Denny’s braid? Would you know anything about that? Can you send me in the right direction to check it out?
