Layman's explanation of efficiency.... Please

15 batches in on AG using Denny’s batch sparge method. Consistently in the low 60’s and I am resorting to adding a lb. of DME to each batch to boost my OG. I’m using beersmith and my efficiency almost always 63-65.8. As an example the honey wheat I brewed on Saturday had a pre boil OG of 1.028. Using beer smith they had projected an pre boil OG of 1.035 so I added the lb. of Wheat DME, and after the flame out honey addition I hit the OG of 1.050. The beer I’m making is always drinkable and my friends and neighbors seem to like it. Am I getting to caught up in the numbers? Well water that I by pass the softner for brewing so it’s pretty hard.

Are you looking for an explanation of what efficiency is or why yours is somewhat low?

Yes, I need to know if consistancy is more important than high numbers. Example below:
5lbs maris Otter
2 lbs Red Wheat malt
1.5 lbs. White Wheat malt
8 oz. honey malt
Pre boil volume 6.2 gallons gravity 1.028
Added 1lb Wheat DME at 45, and lb. honey at flame out.
First running 1.045 3 gal.
OG 1.50 4.75 gallons to fermenter
I use a refractometer for my readings that I have calibrated with distilled water
Beersmith give me an efficiency in the high 50’s.
Is it water chemistry? mash temp. screw ups? this one held a152 for the full hour mash raised to 167 with the second addition of boiling waterheld for 10 minutes. Total water added was 8.25 gallons. 3.00 gallon mash 1.75 water addition 3.50 gallons last water addition.

Yes, consistency is more important. If you’re interested in increasing your efficiency, look at the crush. It’s almost always the main factor.

Denny, Can you come over to my house and tell me what I’m doing wrong? Wife makes a really good pulled pork sandwich.
Will a double crush at NB change anything?

It honestly depends whether its about consistency or high #'s. Some people don’t care at all about efficiency (like no-sparge brewers), and simply buy the additional pounds of grain at $1-2/lb. Some people love bragging to their friends that they got a few more cc’s of glucose out of grains than someone else. I personally think consistency is immensely important, because if you know what your system delivers, you can adjust the recipe.

Without your extract, I put your efficiency around 52-53%. For mash efficiency, I find it really easy to think in terms of gravity POINTS. Water boils off, sugars/gravity points do not.

For instance, you have 9lbs of grain, with a MAXIMUM yield of 36-37 gravity POINTS per pound (or 324-333 total gravity points). If you had 6.2 gallons pre boil at 1.028, that is 173.6. 173.6/324 is .535, or 53.5%.

52-53% isn’t great. I am typically in the mid-hi 70’s, and can live with it. 52% seems like something pretty basic is off. Could you give some more information on your setup? Do you mash in a cooler? Whats the filter (braid, bazooka, manifold)? How about mash thickness (volume of water/lb.)? pH can definitely affect mash efficiency. Have you measured your pH? Are you sure your thermometer is calibrated? All that said, the quality/grit of the crush is really a huge factor in efficiency as well.

50 qt. rubbermaid cooler with a SS braid. I had real problems with temps until I got a Thermapen and found out that my digital Therm with probe was off by 6-8 degrees f. I now pre heat the cooler with 170 degree water allow it to sit for a few minutes and then add and stir in the grains until I reach the target temp. I wrap the cooler in warm blankets and don’t touch it for the length of the mash. By doing this I lose less than 1 degree an hour. the batch above I mashed in at 152 using 11.75 quarts of water, and left it alone for an hour. I added 1.75 gallons of boiling water which raised the temp. to 164 and I let it rest for 10min. Drew off one quart, added back to the cooler, to set the bed. I had first runnings of 3.00 gallons at 1.045, added 3.50 gallons of 170 degree water reset the bed with a quart of the wort and drew off 3.2 gallons of second runnings of which I didn’t take a gavity reading, because my propane burner refused to hold a flame, and I was moving my kettle from the kitchen to the garage back to the kitchen. pre boil gravity was 1.028 so I added the DME to get me close to the 1.035 that beersmith had projected. My water is hard so I add buffer 5.2. I know alot of mixed reviews on this, but it was recommended.

Forget the 5.2…it generally doesn’t work and IME adds off flavors to the beer. If you continue to use it, see sure to actually check the pH to be sure it’s working. But that still won’t do anything about the sodium it adds to the beer.

You’re overthinking this…until you change the crush, forget about the more esoteric factors.

If you’re consistently at that lower efficiency why not just get more basemalt instead of adding DME?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but adding more base malt won’t change your efficiency. Beer smith adjusts as you increase your malts. I try to take established recipes and then increase the grain bill 10% as it is, but when I put those factors in it adjusts the water amounts. The answer is right in front of my face, but I can’t see it.
1, I will double crush the grains to see if that changes anything.
2, I will quit using 5.2 for a while to see if that has an effect.
3, I have ordered a brewer’s water test from Ward labs to get a definitive answer to what I’m brewing with.

PS I didn’t have these frustrations with extract. My friends liked what I made, and I was happy with the final product. I just think it is a more intimate/organic form of brewing, the grains, the mash, the wild turkey’s eating my spent grains. I have no illusions of a future in brewing, but on my small scale I would like to do it correctly.

For future reference, the W-6 test from ward gives you all the info you need and is less expensive. And when you;re trying your list of things, be sure to try only 1 at a time so you’ll know what’s going on.

[quote=“flytyer”]Correct me if I’m wrong, but adding more base malt won’t change your efficiency. Beer smith adjusts as you increase your malts. I try to take established recipes and then increase the grain bill 10% as it is, but when I put those factors in it adjusts the water amounts.[/quote]If your final volume remains the same, increasing your grain will increase your OG (but it won’t improve your efficiency, might make it a little worse actually).

[quote=“Pietro”]It honestly depends whether its about consistency or high #'s. Some people don’t care at all about efficiency (like no-sparge brewers), and simply buy the additional pounds of grain at $1-2/lb. Some people love bragging to their friends that they got a few more cc’s of glucose out of grains than someone else. I personally think consistency is immensely important, because if you know what your system delivers, you can adjust the recipe.

Without your extract, I put your efficiency around 52-53%. For mash efficiency, I find it really easy to think in terms of gravity POINTS. Water boils off, sugars/gravity points do not.

For instance, you have 9lbs of grain, with a MAXIMUM yield of 36-37 gravity POINTS per pound (or 324-333 total gravity points). If you had 6.2 gallons pre boil at 1.028, that is 173.6. 173.6/324 is .535, or 53.5%.

52-53% isn’t great. I am typically in the mid-hi 70’s, and can live with it. 52% seems like something pretty basic is off. Could you give some more information on your setup? Do you mash in a cooler? Whats the filter (braid, bazooka, manifold)? How about mash thickness (volume of water/lb.)? pH can definitely affect mash efficiency. Have you measured your pH? Are you sure your thermometer is calibrated? All that said, the quality/grit of the crush is really a huge factor in efficiency as well.[/quote]
I’m not so sure pH does have much of an effect on the efficiency. It’s mainly crush and lautering efficiency. If you don’t sparge very much, you will get less sugars from your grains, thus lower efficiency.

pH can have an effect, but it’s way down the line from crush and proper water volumes.

Makes me feel smart when I’m reading a post, have a thought about it, then read Denny’s reply stating what I was thinking.

Crush and water volume. Make sure these factors aren’t the issue first. They are the easiest problems to fix. If not, move on to something a little more difficult to fix.

Makes ME feel smart when somebody agrees with me!

Wait did I read that right of 11.75 qt for 9lbs of grain? Seems like a pretty damn thick mash. Finer crush, maybe a thinner mash too? I’ve been BIABing for last 15 brews or so, so I’m certainly partial to a 2ish quart/lb ratio

This is Batch sparging and that is the first water addition prior to adding 1.75 gallons before the first draw. Drain off the first runnings, add 3.50 gallons of water at 170 and then do your second runnings for your total wort collection of about 6.25 gallons. Total water used is 8.25 gallons + so water absorbtion was approx. 2 gallons or one qt. per lb. of grain. With BIAB you are adding all your water at the start if I understand it correctly. God, please don’t make me do math I have enough problems speekin more gooder english.

Along with trying a finer crust, get yourself a copy of How to Brew or use the on-line version and do a little reading on all-grain brewing in relation to extraction efficiency. Yes there is a little math, but it will help you understand the factors that go into determining your gravity and will provide a mental picture of what’s going on. With that info, and a consistent efficiency, you can easily hit your target gravity by adjusting recipes.

In my opinion, the second water addition that you are adding as a “rest” is completely unnecessary. Plus your boil off rate must be way lower than mine because for a typical 5 gallon batch, I need about 7.5 gallons.

I have been mashing in with 5-5.5 gallons and generally get an initial run off of 3.5 to 4 gallons. I batch sparge with another 4-4.5 gallons and pretty much nail my pre-boil gravity estimates (by BeerSmith) within a point or two.

If you are using BeerSmith, are you adjusting your efficiency so that it properly calculates your grain amounts or are you winging it with your 10% over?