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How much starter for dried lager yeast

Mr malty calc says I need two packets of 11g dried lager yeast for a 5 gallon batch of 1.048 beer. Those are $7 each. if I get 1 packet how much starter with a stir plate would I need. I have several gallons of starter wort canned.

I’m not going to get into extreme detail but making a starter with dry yeast is not a typical route to go as you use up glycogen reserves within the yeast cells when making a liquid starter with dry yeast. So bottom line dry yeast is meant to be used dry. Buy two packs. If you really want to save money and have time to make starters use a wyeast or whitelabs product for like $6 and do a 1-3 step starter depending on cell count required.

Edit* More specifically you “could” make one 3L wyeast/ white labs 1 tube starter to hit 373b, but for optimal growth and less stress on the cells I recommend doing a two step process. IE: 1L will create 225b step this with a 2nd 1L feeding and finish with 356b this is of course if done on a stir-plate.

More importantly>>>>“starter wort canned”
Did you pressure can this wort?
If not you risk high incidence of molds or botulism finding its way into wort if only water bath canning or storing in the fridge. Wort is a low acid high sugar foodstuff that attracts mad bacteria, wild yeast and molds. Pressure canning is THE only proven way to steer clear of the threats. Freezing has been touted as working “some” but many bioflora can survive freezing.

Where are you getting dried yeast for $7? I’ve seen a few around $5, but none at $7.

[quote=“ITsPossible”]

I’m not going to get into extreme detail but making a starter with dry yeast is not a typical route to go as you use up glycogen reserves within the yeast cells when making a liquid starter with dry yeast. So bottom line dry yeast is meant to be used dry. Buy two packs. If you really want to save money and have time to make starters use a wyeast or whitelabs product for like $6 and do a 1-3 step starter depending on cell count required.[/quote]

I would do that but I can’t get liquid yeast locally only dried.

[quote=“ITsPossible”]
More importantly>>>>“starter wort canned”
Did you pressure can this wort?
If not you risk high incidence of molds or botulism finding its way into wort if only water bath canning or storing in the fridge. Wort is a low acid high sugar foodstuff that attracts mad bacteria, wild yeast and molds. Pressure canning is THE only proven way to steer clear of the threats. Freezing has been touted as working “some” but many bioflora can survive freezing.[/quote]

Yes this was pressure canned. We can alot of our vegetables from our garden so I have a pressure caner. Thanks for checking tho

[quote=“Rookie L A”]
Where are you getting dried yeast for $7? I’ve seen a few around $5, but none at $7.[/quote]
I get it at Friar Tuck’s. I guess you have never looked up the prices for W-34/70 before. This site has it listed for $6.75. The rest of the yeast are usually $2.5 -$4 locally.

No worries, you “can” make a starter with dry its not -A- typical as described. A good way to help yeast is to add the following as a regular to all starters and in the case of dry certainly is a push in a positive direction, but any type of yeast hulls or yeast nutrient such as the wyeast nutrient product is good to add to starters to help lessen overall stressors in the true ferment. So if you have the stuff locally grab it also.
It costs like $4-6 bucks a tube, but lasts forever as I use just the tip of a butter knifes worth for a starter and have used half a tube of powder in 7 years time.

For one packet of dry make a 2L starter and you will hit around 375b cells which is more than adequate.

1 pouch = 200billion/ cells @ around a 65-70% viability rate = 140billion starting cells x 2L stir plated starter = 375b A 2L starter is a good step up from 140-200B cell whereas a 3-5 L step up( if you ever needed to) again might cause unneeded overstress.
The 200B I believe is guestimating around 90+% viability? I would have to email Jamil directly to know this for sure. And I have read lately from Lallemand studies that they see around 65-70% viable cells when re pitched within shelf life of 1-2 years.

Excellent on the canning front. I would think you would boil it before using if any other way of storage, but thought I would mention it in the overall thought of yeast thus- person health in case one would water pan or re fridge a wort and use without boiling. Bottom line to others newer in the practice either pressure can wort and use it as a easy make it right now/ no boil starter wort. OR use DME is the only way you should be making starters unless you like infections or other etc…

You could and some do “possibly” store wort in the fridge and/or freeze and THEN reboil before using as a starter BUT I highly discourage the practice as some pathogens can survive boiling.

I get it at Friar Tuck’s. I guess you have never looked up the prices for W-34/70 before. This site has it listed for $6.75.

I don’t have the N B catalog on me, but I know it’s not $6.75.
There is a shop not too far from me in Hillsboro, OR that has Saflager-189, which is a really good dried lager strain that is hard to find for $4. They also have 34/70 at a good price. The savings on several packs would more than cover shipping.

Rookie, it may not have occurred to you at the time but NB shop site is a new tab click away? NB interwebs commerce site showed $6.75 yesterday when I looked.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/safl ... 34-70.html

I only looked as a double check as I know most everybody went way up in price on 34/70 years ago so when he initially said $7 bucks I knew he was correct. Being that he has ample supply of easy to use wort the one sachet should provide enough to get him where he needs to go especially if it is a hop skip away instead of a package delivery delay, Thanks for the updates though always good to know the best prices for stuff.

The Friar Tucks in O’Fallon, MO has liquid yeast. It’s in the corner of the walk in beer cooler with the hops.

Our friar tucks used to have a dedicated refrigerator for hops and yeast but they removed it. They just have hops laying on the shelf now. I can have them order white labs but the last time I did that all 3 vials were all dead. I couldn’t even get one live cell to streak a plate.

I am not familiar with this one. What is the liquid comparison to this one?

S-189 fact sheet

http://www.fermentis.com/fo/pdf/CB/EN/S ... 189_CB.pdf

Main link:

http://www.fermentis.com/fo/60-Beer/60- ... angeCB.asp

The image below shows some typical numbers on this and S-23
and also you can see some true numbers when a test was run with an ale in a
side by test.

Here is what I can gather with a few small searches.
Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%BCrlimann_Brewery

So that leads me to this:

http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp885.html

Which was available in the fall of 2011, it is a platinum strain.
This was interesting also:

http://www.shepherdneame.co.uk/our-brands/lagers.aspx

Just click on the Hurlimann beer tap and it gives a bit of detail, this is subjective of course
depending on grist and hop but gives some additional info.

Its too bad white labs doesn’t have the numbers on this then we could compare the above fermintis tests to see if they are indeed the same strain just from the sidelines here, but I would think it is by looking this stuff over. There is currently no wyeast equivalent.

[quote=“ITsPossible”]Rookie, it may not have occurred to you at the time but NB shop site is a new tab click away? NB interwebs commerce site showed $6.75 yesterday when I looked.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/safl ... 34-70.html

I only looked as a double check as I know most everybody went way up in price on 34/70 years ago so when he initially said $7 bucks I knew he was correct. Being that he has ample supply of easy to use wort the one sachet should provide enough to get him where he needs to go especially if it is a hop skip away instead of a package delivery delay, Thanks for the updates though always good to know the best prices for stuff.[/quote]

I was going by what I remembered from a NB catalog I have at home: $6.75 ? Wowzer.
Brew Brothers in Hillsboro had the S-189 at $4 yesterday. If I were to go dried lager yeast I’d go with the S-189 especially at so much less cost.

[quote=“Rookie L A”][quote=“ITsPossible”]Rookie, it may not have occurred to you at the time but NB shop site is a new tab click away? NB interwebs commerce site showed $6.75 yesterday when I looked.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/safl ... 34-70.html

I only looked as a double check as I know most everybody went way up in price on 34/70 years ago so when he initially said $7 bucks I knew he was correct. Being that he has ample supply of easy to use wort the one sachet should provide enough to get him where he needs to go especially if it is a hop skip away instead of a package delivery delay, Thanks for the updates though always good to know the best prices for stuff.[/quote]

I was going by what I remembered from a NB catalog I have at home: $6.75 ? Wowzer.
Brew Brothers in Hillsboro had the S-189 at $4 yesterday. If I were to go dried lager yeast I’d go with the S-189 especially at so much less cost.[/quote]

Just did a quick check at Brewbrothers.biz and thay have 34/70 at $4.50. Anyone buying a bunch would save enough to pay for shipping.

Yes and no, I have looked into S-189 in the past and it seems as though it will provide a good pils or other lager but in seeing some of the Vdk such as I posted above for S-189/S-23 I like the numbers and my prior history on the 34/70 just a tinge better as it seems like you may have higher ester issues with those but I would welcome any further feedback to confirm or deny these speculations.

I have never actually used S-189 because it has always just been commercially available in 500g bricks, But I have started to see it around now, so maybe a trial is in the future. Although I have looked past WLP885 many times as a first choice for pils. Maybe a samiclaus clone or bock or something as there are vast other choices in pils and 34/70 is pretty sound. I’ll bet that LHBS hasn’t checked an invoice in a long time and just keeps throwing it in the loop.

[quote=“ITsPossible”]Yes and no, I have looked into S-189 in the past and it seems as though it will provide a good pils or other lager but in seeing some of the Vdk such as I posted above for S-189/S-23 I like the numbers and my prior history on the 34/70 just a tinge better as it seems like you may have higher ester issues with those but I would welcome any further feedback to confirm or deny these speculations.

I have never actually used S-189 because it has always just been commercially available in 500g bricks, But I have started to see it around now, so maybe a trial is in the future. Although I have looked past WLP885 many times as a first choice for pils. Maybe a samiclaus clone or bock or something as there are vast other choices in pils and 34/70 is pretty sound. I’ll bet that LHBS hasn’t checked an invoice in a long time and just keeps throwing it in the loop.[/quote]

Denny Conn says it’s a good lager yeast. I’m willing to take his recomendations on most brewing stuff. (at least as a good starting point)

FWIW, you can start with smaller batches and harvest yeast progressively up to the sized batch you want to make. I do 2.5 gallon batches and then step that up to 5 gallons and then up to ten gallons. Ten is my biggest batch, so I will use half a cake at that point for additional ten gallon batches.

:cheers:

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