Ok,
Just tried my 1 gallon bottled beer with priming sugar and Safale yeast (vs WLP001)
Last week and this week (2nd week).
Results:
1.) Week One - good, carbonation low
2.) Week Two - good taste, good carbonation but can not compete with my kegged beer…
I dry hop my kegged beers so this is not a fair study. lol
Ok guys I really felt the drama was over, however the awful flavor is back.
See, I saved one of the mystery ales and left it out at 73f for four or five weeks to see if it would taste any better than the ones I have been drinking, which were refrigerated after two weeks in the bottle. Well it did not get any better and as a matter of fact the awful taste was there.
So distilled water, Star San and bottling wand has not fixed the problem, could it be that I got to much of the sludge from the kettle into the fermenter? The reason I ask is when I used the Irish moss in the last batch, as recommended here, there were globs of, I assume proteins, in the bottom of the kettle. In previous batches there was sludge but no globs. Could it be possible I got to much sludge in the fermenter even though I was trying to leave it behind.
Although it’s possible that your getting too much cold and hot break into the fermenter or trub into the bottling bucket I think your problem lies elsewhere.
Do your bottles get more carbonated? If so I would consider replacing all your soft material.
Loopie is asking if your bottles get even more carbonated than expected with time due to a Brett like infection and is questioning whether or not your equipment is properly sanitized. For example when was the last time you took apart the valves on your LBKs and sanitized them?
Would you describe the off flavor as still being grassy and metallic?
Carbonation does not increase. All of the equipment is taken apart and cleaned after use. Then before they are used again, they are rinsed, sanitized, assembled and rest in Star San until used.
More green vegetable taste than anything.
Currently drinking a citra pale ale, I let condition in the bottle for 10 days. The batch is great so I threw all bottles in the refrigerator.
What hops are in the new “vegetable” brew.
I’m leaning towards your hops again. As I said before sometimes hops come off as grassy and metallic
Small comment:
When I bottled with priming sugar my CO2 levels were all over the map.
And with some bottled beers, I would have some gushers after several months.
Never figured that out (sanitized everything).
Then I moved to Kegs and Beer Gun.
Much better outcome no more surprises (so I thought).
Recently bottled a few with beer gun and let them sit for several months not concerned too much about temp.
Bottled them for a party that never happened.
Some of the brews over-carbonated as well (no gushers, just way too much carbonation and altered taste).
Not really sure what is going on here but have considered options to kill the yeast prior to kegging.
Like they do with Wine.
Thoughts?
The mystery ale used 1 oz Fuggle (60 min) .
With the PET bottles I am using, 740ml., I use one tea spoon of corn sugar and carbonation has been consistent and as far as I am concerned … perfect.
Random thoughts on your issue…
I don’t believe trub from the kettle or the fermenter is your issue. Some argue that those proteins are good for healthy yeast reproduction, to a degree.
I also find it hard to believe that hops are the culprit since it takes over a month(correct?) for the off flavor to rear it’s ugly head. If it were bad hops I suspect you’d taste it right away.
The warmer than serving temp conditioning of the one bad bottle may offer us some clues imho…but I have no theories yet…
Sanitation would be my first suspicion…bottles, caps, bottling equipment…personally I’d throw away any plastics that have been used to make beers that throw this flavor…siphon, tubing, bottling wand, etc…they’re cheap and a good place to start.
Kettle hardware is irrelevant in my mind. It gets boiled…nothing bad survives boiling temps.
How do you clean your bottles? Have you tried a “sanitize” cycle in the dishwasher?
Don’t remember if DMS was discussed above as a possible culprit but it can produce vegetal flavors as well. Are you boiling with the lid on or off? How long does it take you to get your wort chilled below 100F? This could point to the warm conditioning of the one bottle that finally exhibited the off flavor…
Do you check pH of your beers? When? With what instrument? If you’re bottling beers that are not low enough in pH you could be making them susceptible to infection…
A variance in taste/carbonation after bottling beer from a keg points to infection IMO. If it was fine in the keg it should be fine once bottled unless it gets infected or oxidized.
The only reason I bring hops back into the equation is that the OP made many successful beers using a the prehopped LME of Mr. Beer. Some beers just do not age well. IMO wheats, IPAs and some saisons are best fresh. Hop profiles do change with age and floral and flavor goes away. I just drank a Saison I made in the spring and it’s not what it once was as it’s lost a lot of its delicacy and is now all about carbonic acid and malt.
I am at a loss on this. Only thing I can think to do is try them, when they get carbed up and if they taste good put them in the refrigerator. So far I have found no evidence of these beers getting better with time, just the opposite.
Right, it’s not always the case that beer gets better with time? It’s not the right season but make a Stout or something else that actually has a chance to get better with age. But still you did not have the problem you are identifying with Mr. Beer kits. SO either something has changed in your process or something has change with the kits themselves.
Or possibly his palate has improved over time? New brewers don’t always recognize flaws or off flavors in their early batches. Which is why I thought it was his water from the beginning but after making the switch to distilled the only thing we haven’t really discussed here is “extract twang”. Which probably goes back to process. I’m not an extract brewer but I know good process is important to turn out high quality beers from extract. Other people here could address this better than I.
Well maybe the pallet has improved…lol.
On another forum, a longtime and respected member has set the rules as follows for brewing beer.
21 days in the fermenter.
3 day cold crash.
4 weeks conditioning in the bottle.
3 days in the refrigerator before drinking.
These rules are repeated over and over and if someone discusses deviating from the rules, they are quickly told how wrong they are and referred back to the rules. Anyway, I don’t mean to be critical of " The Rules " , because they seem to work with Mr. Beer kits. However it is my conclusion the rules are rubbish when implemented while using extract kits like what Northern Brewer sales.
I believe I got " The Rules " ingrained in my head and forcing them on my Northern Brewer kits, when I really should have been following Northern Brewer’s instructions until I learn more.
Don’t know who layed out the “rules” on the other forum, but I think that anyone who has been brewing for a time knows that there are guidelines to follow and that each brew is its own thing. I don’t always follow the instructions with kits to the letter. I may mash at the different temp or time length or ferment longer oe shorter. The beer will tell you when it is time.
Boy I’d like to meet his beer! It can read the calendar! Amazing!
Crazy… I have a brew that was pitched just over 2 weeks that is on tap now… I forced carbed it, been in the keg close to a week… and is it ever drink-able! It only weighs in at 4.7%… I would still be waiting with a bigger brew of course. Sneezles61
I just did a 7 day ferment which included a 2 day dry hop and was drinking after only 2 days of bottle conditioning. It one of my favorite batches too. I was on that other forum as well and the reason they have those rules is because they cannot tolerate the same questions of why noob beer didn’t work.
Your pallet has improved I’m sure.
