Generations of repitch?/Wyeast 1450

[voodoo_donut]

I'm on my 3rd repitch of Wyeast 1450 aka @Denny 's Favorite 50. It's made 2 nice ales thus far, and I wonder with this fairly clean ale yeast, how many generations have some of you taken it out to?

I've taken to not repitching saison and Hefeweizen yeast because of gradual but definite loss of desired phenolics/flavor etc.in subsequent repitches......

[denny]

That's up to you, not the strain. I've gone 8-10 no problem. But you need to pay attention to how it acts and smells

[voodoo_donut]

I've gone 8-10 no problem.

Great, thanks! I hadn't got around to using 1450 until this year, so I plan to use it in several more beers/styles in series.

Strains 3068(hefe) and 3724(saison) make great ales initially then(in my experience) seem to drift toward progressively blander products with repitch......possibly from overpitch of slurry(?).

[sneezles61]

I've done the Australian yeast I believe 8 times, it started going funny so I didn't try any further... I wonder if/when doing a starter to use a minute amount of yeast nutrient to help it along.. maybe you would get more pitches? Sneezles61

[voodoo_donut]

.. I wonder if/when doing a starter to use a minute amount of yeast nutrient to help it along.. maybe you would get more pitches? Sneezles61

I do use 1/8th tsp of yeast nutrient for all starters. I do the " James Bond", ( M. cerevesiae) SNSYS.....

[dannyboy58]

I've done six "repitches" with 1450. I did a series of amber ales and IPAs just racking wort onto half the fresh cake each time.

[sneezles61]

Read some where that peeps save yeast in the freezer... Haven't been that brave yet... Sneezles61

[loopie_beer]

Strains 3068(hefe) and 3724(saison) make great ales initially then(in my experience) seem to drift toward progressively blander products with repitch......possibly from overpitch of slurry(?).

Overpitching would be my guess too. Really easy when your speaking of a whole yeast cake. Even when you’re only using a part.

[squeegeethree]

I’ve started using the smallest mason jars, 4 oz, and those are still about 50 times more material than a smack pack

[brew_cat]

From the first pitch you can get say 4 Jared of first generation which will 16 jars of second gen which will yield 64 jars of second generation. Of course that is way to much so I generally only save a jar or 2 and I date them. I always use the freshest and don't pay much attention to the generation. Fresh trumps generation

[denny]

actually, overpitching creates more esters. The same enzyme, acetyl co-A is used for both cell growth and ester production. When it does one, it doesn't do the other. So, pitching more yeast means less growth and more esters, contrary to what homebrewers have been taught.

[sneezles61]

See, We learn new stuff from time to time! Now to reprogram that one brain cell! Sneezles61

[voodoo_donut]

Unfortunately, I still don't know what causes the problem, and this problem is not unique to my experience........genetic drift/ mutation/strain fatigue/physical-fermenter effects/ improper handling of stored slurry/low oxygen effects / multiples of the above?
Contamination with other organisms (in a meaningful way)considered unlikely, especially since it occurs relatively soon with hefes.( I'm not that bad of a brewer).

[sneezles61]

So I've wondered many times about this whole idea about the yeast strains... Perhaps some are more susceptible to organisms from our "area" than other yeast strains? There is no way any one can convince me that we don't "pollute" a yeast strain. So you get a strain from way over there... The air they have, will have something different than ours and it... "sustains" that culture? I know we are sanitary as we can be.. but the different regions must have different stuff floating around that we even breathe... Best have another brew about now and see if I even make sense to me self! Sneezles61
EDIT: Suppose to snow... over a foot... So the deer in the backyard go some grub... 12 of them...

[squeegeethree]

Ok then "stressing the yeast" is limiting growth in the same way you say over pitching does. Maybe that is where the false lore comes from. Or not...
What is "yeast bite"?

[denny]

I don't see the connection