I plan on brewing somewhat of a freezer cleaner this weekend. I have also never done a FWH. I am just looking on people’s input on the grain bill, hop additions & hops used. First things first:
10lb American 2-Row
1lb UK 2-Row
0.5lb Biscuit Malt (28L)
0.5lb Crystal 40L
1oz Amarillo - 8.3%AA - First Wort Hop
0.5oz Amarillo - 8.3%AA - 10 min
0.25oz Simcoe - 11.8%AA - 10 min
0.5oz Amarillo - 8.3%AA - 2 min
0.75oz Simcoe - 11.8%AA - 2 min
Wyeast PC # 1217 - West Coast IPA
Mash @ 151*F for 60 min
SG: 1.058
IBU: 40
SO - It is a “freezer cleaner” because the only thing I have to buy is the yeast & the 10lbs of American 2-Row. I have the hops, specialty malt & UK 2-Row. Does anyone see an issue with this grain bill besides the fact that it is a bit of a mash up of domestic & foreign grains?
I am using the FWH as my bittering charge…no 60 minute addition. Between beersmith saying it should get me the IBUs I’m looking for & my searching this forum for previous FWH threads it seems that is not an extreme thing to do. Anyone disagree?
My biggest questions come with the hops I am using. I love Simcoe but have never used Amarillo. At +8% AA, is it too much to do a FWH with? Does anyone have experience with using Amarillo for FWH or is it a waste to FWH with it? Anyone experience any catty/off flavors with it? One of my favorite new beers I had tried year was Deschutes Catchin’ Freshies so I do know I like the Amarillo hops.
Thanks for bearing with me while I ask 100 questions.
In a nutshell… I like your recipe. Looks good! If I had to make a change or two I would make those 2min additions flame out additions. I’d also try to get an ounce or two of Amarillo for dry hopping.
IMO and experience, FWH is not a sub for a 60 min. addition. To me it’;s for flavor and doesn’t have the kick a 0 min. addition gives you. I always add hops at 60 when I use FWH.
I agree with Denny FWIW. I would add a small charge (maybe get 10-15 IBUs) at 60 minutes from a neutral hop like magnum, or maybe use CTZ if you want some earthy/dank hop character. That goes well with a balanced APA IMO, but you can also have it bright, floral and citrusy, which your existing hops will give you if you use some neutral bittering.
I agree with Denny FWIW. I would add a small charge (maybe get 10-15 IBUs) at 60 minutes from a neutral hop like magnum, or maybe use CTZ if you want some earthy/dank hop character. That goes well with a balanced APA IMO, but you can also have it bright, floral and citrusy, which your existing hops will give you if you use some neutral bittering.[/quote]
My method is to start with the amount of FWH I want for flavor…usually 1-2 oz. I see how many IBU I get from that, calculating it as a 20 min. addition. Then I add enough hops at 60 to get top the IBU level I want. Based on analysis of beers made like that, it’s damn close.
Has anyone done any studies on why FWH adds more flavor and less perceived bitterness? The same hop oils are subjected to a full 60 minute boil in both cases. I also can’t seem to understand why FWH would be any different than say adding them at the beginning of a 75 minute boil (or however long it takes to get your wort in the kettle and up to a boil).
It basically implies that the hop oils that are extracted during FWH are not subjected to the same isomerization as hops added at the beginning of the boil. Like they’re somehow “protected” from that change. Just trying to understand the science behind it all and if anyone has taken the research that far.
I’d like to see a study where not only are FWH flavor contributions compared to 20 min additions flavor contributions but also a study the compares just the bitterness of a FWH to the bitterness of a 60 minute addition (no 20 min additions at all).
Thanks for the input guys. I think I will tweek the recipe a little by moving the 2 minute additions to flame out. I will also add a little bit of 60 minute hops in there too.
Denny, can you elaborate a little so I fully understand your method? Beersmith says I am going to get something like 30 IBU from the FWH with the whole recipe coming in at about 40 IBU. If I want to stay around those numbers you are saying I should take that…what are you saying? :?
I agree with Denny FWIW. I would add a small charge (maybe get 10-15 IBUs) at 60 minutes from a neutral hop like magnum, or maybe use CTZ if you want some earthy/dank hop character. That goes well with a balanced APA IMO, but you can also have it bright, floral and citrusy, which your existing hops will give you if you use some neutral bittering.[/quote]
My method is to start with the amount of FWH I want for flavor…usually 1-2 oz. I see how many IBU I get from that, calculating it as a 20 min. addition. Then I add enough hops at 60 to get top the IBU level I want. Based on analysis of beers made like that, it’s damn close.[/quote]
If FWH adds the same as a 20 minute addition, then why do it? Just add them at 20 minutes?
[quote=“GeerBoggles”]Thanks for the input guys. I think I will tweek the recipe a little by moving the 2 minute additions to flame out. I will also add a little bit of 60 minute hops in there too.
Denny, can you elaborate a little so I fully understand your method? Beersmith says I am going to get something like 30 IBU from the FWH with the whole recipe coming in at about 40 IBU. If I want to stay around those numbers you are saying I should take that…what are you saying? :? [/quote]
You need to set Beersmith so that it counts the bittering from FWH to be the same as the bittering from a 20 min. I did that in Promash, but I don’t know how to do it in BS.
[quote=“Denny”][quote=“GeerBoggles”]Thanks for the input guys. I think I will tweek the recipe a little by moving the 2 minute additions to flame out. I will also add a little bit of 60 minute hops in there too.
Denny, can you elaborate a little so I fully understand your method? Beersmith says I am going to get something like 30 IBU from the FWH with the whole recipe coming in at about 40 IBU. If I want to stay around those numbers you are saying I should take that…what are you saying? :? [/quote]
You need to set Beersmith so that it counts the bittering from FWH to be the same as the bittering from a 20 min. I did that in Promash, but I don’t know how to do it in BS.[/quote]
Okay, I think I can figure that out. If not I can just plug it in at 20 minutes & then ignore what it tells me I will get for the FWH number and use the 20 minute number instead. I will do that and then adjust my bittering/flavor/aroma additions from there.
[quote=“GeerBoggles”]
Okay, I think I can figure that out. If not I can just plug it in at 20 minutes & then ignore what it tells me I will get for the FWH number and use the 20 minute number instead. I will do that and then adjust my bittering/flavor/aroma additions from there.
:cheers: [/quote]
When you click add hops in BeerSmith, there’s the option for Use on the hop selection screen. Change that to FWH and set the time to 20. It does calculate the IBUs slightly differently from boiling for 20 minutes.
[/quote]
When you click add hops in BeerSmith, there’s the option for Use on the hop selection screen. Change that to FWH and set the time to 20. It does calculate the IBUs slightly differently from boiling for 20 minutes.[/quote]
Yes, in BeerSmith, FWH addition that is changed to 20 min will list a slightly higher IBU than standard 20 min boil. If you want to count the FWH as the same as a 20 min bittering and also list it as a FWH addition, change the time to 17.5 minutes, and that will give you very close to the same bittering level as traditional 20 min boil.
Thanks for this link Denny. What I gather from this is that there MAY be a perception difference (depending on experience/palate/knowledge) but scientifically the difference is minimal. All around pretty interesting stuff. I hope to play with the recipe tonight. I will try to post the final draft of the recipe when I get a chance.
Hey there is any plan for this weekdays because i am free in whole week if you have some plane so please share here i will be join you definitely. :blah:
