With alkalinity as high as Silentknyght’s water, it might very well be.
Sean you beat me to it before I added my edit to say “I don’t think that…” Great point! different water, different aproach.
Sometimes I have used 33% RO water with 66% tap water in the sparge. I have went even higher when doing pilsners. I have never really added any CaSO4 or other additives though to my sparge. I suppose that I should try it and make some comparisons thought to find out what kind of a difference it might make.
If batch sparging it is typically unnecessary to adjust sparge ph as it has higher buffering than if fly sparging. I do fly sparge and do find that if I adjust to <6 my final runnings do not exceed 5.8
[quote=“brewsumore”]I like to use phosphoric, although I found that using a 70% solution I need to add just under 1/2 of the recommended dosage figured as needed in Bru’n Water, to hit my predicted mash pH. Have to handle it more carefully than if using lactic, although phosphoric is still a weak acid. Phosphoric is known for imparting very little or no off-flavors.
When using acid, whatever % solution you use, I recommend dosing carefully with a small syringe gradated by ml.[/quote]
Ding, ding, ding we have a winner. I subscribe to this ideology regarding choice of acid, but it comes down to personal choice of course as some feel comfortable with lactic or sauermalt so its in the eye of the beholder.
Noonan states the water UNDER 150 HCO3 can be reduced by acidification. So there’s a chance even if you cut it 50:50 you will have some negative impact from acidification.
I use phosphoric for everything but German beers (lactic). I tend to think you could get away with a 50:50 cut with ro and phosphoric acid. I would however go all ro for delicate stuff like pils
Absolutely treat sparge water. I have proven that my water 90 HCO3 will exceed 6 in a batch sparge. No way your ph is cool without sparge water adjustment. Also, under 6 is “acceptable” but far from what I prefer. My current goals are a preboil of 5.4 and post of 5.2. Impossible with my water unless sparge is acidified.
Apologies for the thread necromancy…
It’s been about a year, and I still don’t have a good answer to this question. Perhaps Martin knows the answer? It doesn’t look like I did a very good job of asking the question in the earlier posts within this thread. [b] Basically, it’s this is my question:
If I have 300ppm alkalinity/bicarbonates to start with, will the same beer made with the following water(s) have perceptibly different flavor, assuming all else held constant:
(a) Lactic acid added, enough to reduce alkalinity to ~75 ppm
(b) Diluted with RO, enough to reduce alkalinity to ~75 ppm[/b]
EDIT:
Using the Bru’n’water default recipe (i.e., “default settings” on the “Mash Acidification” page) and my water profile (287 ppm bicarbonates, other details upon request), I get that 1.1 ml/gal (or ~4 ml total, for the “default settings”) of lactic acid is needed to reduce bicarbonates to about 78 ppm.
(Note: The “Default settings” are for a 3.5 gal mash of 10 lbs of 2-row grain, only. Estimated beer color 2.4 SRM. Resulting pH, after aforementioned lactic addition, is 5.7)
Yes, IMO.
(a) will have a sour twang (and I would not be able to even drink this)
(b) should be pretty and good tasting brew
Your water might be OK as is for dark beers, but unfortunately for light beers you must dilute to 150ppm bicarb just to get to a point where the acid you add to hit your desired pH does not become objectionable.
[quote=“zwiller”]Yes, IMO.
[/quote]
I edited the above question to include some additional background.
Andrew, your water with 300+ ppm bicarbonate could have a flavor impact if its neutralized with lactic acid. Since lactic acid is mono-protic, it neutralizes 1 ppm of bicarb for every 1 ppm of lactate ion it delivers to the water.
The flavor threshold for lactate ion in beer is around 400 ppm (from Malting and Brewing Science). The problem is that some people are more sensitive to that taste than others. I’ve been leaning toward saying that about 200 ppm of bicarb neutralization is a safe number for neutralizing with lactic acid for that reason. When the neutralization need is higher than that, I’d say moving on to phosphoric acid is wise. The phosphate ion is relatively taste-neutral in beer.
Since your water has very high Temporary Hardness, it would be easy to perform a test on the taste of the decarbonated water. Boil a small quantity, cool it, and then place it in an air-tight container (to avoid CO2 pick up). After a few hours, the suspended chalk should have settled to the bottom of the container and you can decant that clear water off. That water will have an bicarb in the range of 60 to 80 ppm.
In general, I don’t think that you would perceive much difference in the taste of the tap and boiled water since the calcium and bicarbonate don’t have much taste. You could go on to test your taste threshold regarding the lactate too. Use the acidification calculator on Bru’n Water to figure how much lactic acid you need to add to reduce the alkalinity to a desired point. I’d suggest trying 164 ppm alkalinity which is equal to 200 ppm bicarbonate. See if you can taste it in the water. Then try higher dosages if you couldn’t taste it.
In general, you shouldn’t not much difference in taste between these waters until you approach your threshold for lactate. Since all the acid is neutralized by the bicarb, there would not be an acidic tartness for those modest acid additions.
[quote=“mabrungard”]
In general, you shouldn’t not much difference in taste between these waters until you approach your threshold for lactate. Since all the acid is neutralized by the bicarb, there would not be an acidic tartness for those modest acid additions.[/quote]
Awesome, detailed response, Martin! Are you a water chemist, by trade? I’ve been curious…
Anyhow, if we switched to phosphoric acid instead of lactic, would it be fair to say that, in your opinion, there would be virtually no perceptible (beer, or water) difference in taste between the two scenarios?
I’m going to try that water test you mention in the third paragraph. Quick, cheap & easy. 
