Made another brew, this time an extra pale ale extract kit, after my first batch came out flat (talked about it here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=112860).
Its been bottled for two weeks and its still just flat as could be. Incredibly frustrated at this point now that I have been trying this out for a few months and still have been unable to enjoy a brew :evil:
I follow the instructions that the extract kit comes with except instead of only doing a 2.5 gallon boil, I do a full 5 since I have a large enough pot. I am pretty meticulous about sterilizing, everything is either submerged or covered in Star San.
Fermentation took off great in this batch, even blowing the air lock off. Fortunately I keep the primary in a temp controlled fridge so hopefully nothing nasty made its way in. This stayed in the primary for 2 weeks.
After 2 weeks I moved it over into a secondary. The secondary was cleaned very well, as was all the racking equipment. Afterwards it was left out in the basement and not in the fridge, which only varies around 70-75 degrees this time of year. There I left it for two weeks.
Bottling day I boil 2 cups of water with 4oz of Corn Sugar and put that into my sterilized bottling bucket (which I just use my kettle with an adapter for bottling). Again, anything that touches the beer is fully sanitized with Star San. Bottles I washed the night before and let air dry, then are submerged in a Star San solution for more than a few minutes before emptying and filling. Also, all caps are also put into a bowl of Star San.
2 weeks after bottling I pop the top, get a small decompression noise, pour and completely flat. Not a single bit of carb.
Give the bottles a shake each day to get the yeast off the bottom of the bottle. Let them sit another week in the warmest area of the home. .
Did your other beer eventually carbonate?
On your next batch, fill 1 or 2 soda bottles. Squeeze the O2 out and screw the cap on. The bottle will expand when CO2 is formed. A good visual as to what is happening in the bottle.
Give the bottles a shake each day to get the yeast off the bottom of the bottle. Let them sit another week in the warmest area of the home. .
Did your other beer eventually carbonate?
On your next batch, fill 1 or 2 soda bottles. Squeeze the O2 out and screw the cap on. The bottle will expand when CO2 is formed. A good visual as to what is happening in the bottle.[/quote]
Bottles are at about 70 currently.
No the other beer never carbonated. Has a great flavor, just flat. Ill go and mix the bottles tonight and move them upstairs, but its only maybe mid 70’s.
Yeah I need to bottle another batch this weekend, I will have to remember the plastic bottle this time around.
Cold liquids can retain much higher amounts of gas in solution than warm ones. Additionally, cold liquids will retain their gasses longer than warm. So, if your opening one bottle at 70 and another at 45, while they contain the came CO2, the second will have more of it in the liquid while the first will have more in the headspace. Also the beer at 70 will expel its CO2 in solution more rapidly than the beer at 45. This can lead to the perception of ‘flat’ beer.
Also, chill your bottles 24 hours prior to opening. It can take that long for the gases to go into suspension, even if they get cold enough much sooner.
It doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything wrong. Are you for sure using 4oz (by weight) of corn sugar? If you can only measure by volume, try 3/4 cup.
Is there maybe something wrong with your caps or capper? You could try re-capping a commercial brew to test it.
[quote=“Trimack”]Are you chilling the beer before serving?
Cold liquids can retain much higher amounts of gas in solution than warm ones. Additionally, cold liquids will retain their gasses longer than warm. So, if your opening one bottle at 70 and another at 45, while they contain the came CO2, the second will have more of it in the liquid while the first will have more in the headspace. Also the beer at 70 will expel its CO2 in solution more rapidly than the beer at 45. This can lead to the perception of ‘flat’ beer.
Also, chill your bottles 24 hours prior to opening. It can take that long for the gases to go into suspension, even if they get cold enough much sooner.
Just a couple thoughts, hope that helps.[/quote]
With my first batch it didn’t make a difference wether it was cold or room temp, it stayed about the same. Flavor was better at room temp than at a chilled temp though. I will try throwing one in the fridge later this week.
Gave each bottle a shake last night and moved them upstairs out of the basement were its a bit warmer.
[quote=“Nate42”]It doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything wrong. Are you for sure using 4oz (by weight) of corn sugar? If you can only measure by volume, try 3/4 cup.
Is there maybe something wrong with your caps or capper? You could try re-capping a commercial brew to test it.[/quote]
Yeah I am pretty sure, I was using a digital scale. Thats another thing where I deviated from the instructions and just went off the calculations in Palmers book.
I would almost bet on this. From everything he said, this beer should be carbonating. I can’t pick out anything in that process that wasn’t spot on.
Is there a cake of sediment on the bottom of the bottles? Are you sure the basement temp is 70? I had a lot of swear words and a box full of junk of thermometers when I started out. Then I sacked up and got a thermapen.
Instead of waiting till the next batch, try pouring one of your flat brews into a 16oz soda bottle, adding a small dose of table/corn sugar (you can calculate it on tastybrew.com if you want), squeeze excess air out of the bottle, screw the cap on tightly and leave it at room temperature. If the bottle ‘inflates’ from the inside, your beer is fine, and it is likely your capper or your capping process. If it doesn’t inflate, we’ll go from there. FWIW, I’ve heard nothing but horror stories about the hand cappers, and have had resounding success with the ‘stand’ capper.
that really sucks though man. Don’t get frustrated, as this is by far the greatest hobby I have (and I have a lot), and you will hopefully look back on this and laugh someday while enjoying one of your fizzy delicious brews.
Can’t see why this would happen. You could try adding a little yeast to the bottling bucket. I’ve added a couple pinches of rehydrated notty to batches that were cold crashed for longer than usual - probably not necessary, but I’d hate to lose a batch to sleepy yeast.
I think you should go through your process carefully and give it some thought - to tell you the truth, I’ve never had a batch fail to carb. Now watch - the batch I bottled the other day will probably flop just to prove me wrong. I hope you get it figured out, Bro - that’s got to be heartbreaking.
[quote=“Pietro”][quote=“Nate42”]Instead of waiting till the next batch, try pouring one of your flat brews into a 16oz soda bottle, adding a small dose of table/corn sugar (you can calculate it on tastybrew.com if you want), squeeze excess air out of the bottle, screw the cap on tightly and leave it at room temperature. If the bottle ‘inflates’ from the inside, your beer is fine, and it is likely your capper or your capping process. If it doesn’t inflate, we’ll go from there. FWIW, I’ve heard nothing but horror stories about the hand cappers, and have had resounding success with the ‘stand’ capper.
[/quote][/quote]
Yeah thats a good idea, Ill try that out tonight after work.
[quote=“midmobrwr”]Can’t see why this would happen. You could try adding a little yeast to the bottling bucket. I’ve added a couple pinches of rehydrated notty to batches that were cold crashed for longer than usual - probably not necessary, but I’d hate to lose a batch to sleepy yeast.
I think you should go through your process carefully and give it some thought - to tell you the truth, I’ve never had a batch fail to carb. Now watch - the batch I bottled the other day will probably flop just to prove me wrong. I hope you get it figured out, Bro - that’s got to be heartbreaking.[/quote]
Yeah I heard that too. I debated doing that, but only had dry yeast on hand and didn’t think about it until I was ready to bottle. Didn’t know if it would get mixed up enough to be even in every bottle.
Reyeasting with dry yeast at bottling is something people do all the time to carb faster. It doesn’t have to be the same yeast you fermented with, and it doesn’t take much. People do it to carb faster, or for insurance if they’ve done long term aging.
BUT that’s not your problem here. Reyeasting is a perfectly fine thing to add to your process but focus on other things first. There are basically two possibilities: you’re not getting enough sugar in there (or not evenly distributing it) or you have a bad cap seal so the carbonation is leaking out. It sounds like you’re doing everything fine, so my money is on the capping at this point. YOu’re not trying to cap on twist offs are you?
[quote=“Nate42”]Reyeasting with dry yeast at bottling is something people do all the time to carb faster. It doesn’t have to be the same yeast you fermented with, and it doesn’t take much. People do it to carb faster, or for insurance if they’ve done long term aging.
BUT that’s not your problem here. Reyeasting is a perfectly fine thing to add to your process but focus on other things first. There are basically two possibilities: you’re not getting enough sugar in there (or not evenly distributing it) or you have a bad cap seal so the carbonation is leaking out. It sounds like you’re doing everything fine, so my money is on the capping at this point. YOu’re not trying to cap on twist offs are you?[/quote]
Yeah capping could be an issue. I tried leaving a bottle suspended upside down for about 8 hours today to see if anything leaked out, but it was dry as a bone when I came back to it. Although gases might be able to leak easier under higher pressure that liquid so I guess that can’t completely rule it out. But I don’t know how I could screw up 50 caps though. And no, they are all reused pop off bottles.
I have another batch ready to bottle but now I am hesitant since I have had so much bad luck thus far.
Is it possible that since I left it sit in a cooler basement the yeast just keeps going dormant?
Yeah capping could be an issue. I tried leaving a bottle suspended upside down for about 8 hours today to see if anything leaked out, but it was dry as a bone when I came back to it. Although gases might be able to leak easier under higher pressure that liquid so I guess that can’t completely rule it out. But I don’t know how I could screw up 50 caps though. And no, they are all reused pop off bottles.
I have another batch ready to bottle but now I am hesitant since I have had so much bad luck thus far.
Is it possible that since I left it sit in a cooler basement the yeast just keeps going dormant?[/quote]
Just how cool is your basement? Mine is perpetually in the high 50s or low 60s, and I’ve never had problems. Now granted these days I usually keg, but I did plenty of bottle conditioning when the beer had secondaried for several months at those temperatures. I only reyeasted once, and that was on a very strong beer that had aged for nearly a year.
If you’re concerned it doesn’t hurt to try reyeasting, all it will cost you is a pack of dry yeast. I really don’t think that’s your problem though.
If you drink one does it taste sweet, like the priming sugar is still in there? Do you see any sediment collecting at the bottom?
Anyone think too much star san could be the culprit? If it were mixed too strong and too much were left on the bottles I think it could kill the small amount of yeast left in a finished beer that we rely on for carbonating. I personally use idophor and have never had a problem. I never liked all that foam that star san makes…
Finally think I have concluded its all in the caps.
When using my winged capper I would put the cap on and then start to crimp. When it would kind of snap down I assumed it was on enough. However testing it out more last night I realized I can crimp it down a bit further after the initial snap. It was on enough to hold the liquid in without leaks, but I guess when the bottle goes under pressure its not crimped on enough to hold in the gas and it leaks.
Went ahead and bottled my next batch last night, and really gave the crimper some horsepower to make sure they are on as tight as could be.
Thanks to everyone who gave out some really great recommendations and help, I appreciated it all!
I guess the last question I have with all of this, is there any hope for my my batch that has carbonated and leaked? I am not sure how I would go about evenly distributing more sugar or if re-yeasting is necessary?
