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First time sour

Mashing
#1

I plan to brew a Oud Bruin in two weeks and just had a few questions. I plan to primary ferment with WLP004-Irish ale yeast. Then pitch in the Wyeast Roeselare. Should I move from primary to secondary to add the bugs or just pitch them in the primary? On top of the old yeast cake. I have read that the bugs will eat the yeast but I can’t imagine a whole cake. Also how long should I expect till it gets a nice sour taste? I see people let stuff sit for a extremely long time but then Jamil says (not verbatim) on the Oud bruin show something like; let it go for a month and then keg it and pull a sample every week till it gets to where you like it. If this is the preferred method should I bleed the pressure off the keg every few days? Do bugs generate gas in a large enough quantity. Will a pellicle form in that short of a time? Will it reform in my keg? Just looking to clear up a few things I’m not certain about. The recipe I have made is fairly simple my goal is to hopefully have a sour tang with some body and flavor complexity. I am no expert when it comes to drinking sour beers but I have had several that I don’t care for at all that tasted like cherry medicine or seemed to just be sour with no backing of any sort. Also should I keep a gallon of wort in a separate container and add the bugs so they can start growing and be active before adding to the carboy of fermented wort? Will they be fine going right into a not so friendly environment? The recipe is

11 LB-pilsner
1 LB-Special B
1 LB- Biscuit Malt
1 OZ- Hallertauer 60 min- This will give me a BeerSmith estimated 16.4 IBU

Estimated O.G. 1.060-NB crush usually gets me .002-3 higher. SRM 18.4 ABV 6.1%-Beersmith doesn’t seem to change when I add or remove the Roeselare? Thanks.

#2

Ferment, transfer, pitch Roselaere. I have yet to get really good results with just the Roselaere, not nearly sour enough for my taste, so I also add dregs from commercial sours every now and then to help add some more complexity.

#3

For a first time run I will stick with what I have unless I am unhappy with the results. Would you mash high to provide “unfermentable” sugars for the bugs? Any other suggestions or things to be aware of? In the case I am unhappy with the level of sourness I can get a range of Jolly Pumpkin beers if the dregs from one is better then another?

#4

I always pitch my bugs with in the primary. Some I rack to secondary some I do not. These are all time…if it is not sour enough let it go longer, quickest I have had a sour done was about 6 or 7 months, but that was with East Coast yeast.
Jamil’s a good brewer but his sour recomendations have never worked out very well for me.

#5

from my limited experience i think that the concern with leaving the bugs plenty of food is somewhat overblown. there will be stuff for them to eat if it finishes malty or semi dry. i think it more important for you to think about what you want in your beer.
do you want a dry crisp sour or a rich malty one?

i have a ten month old red ale with roselare that i wish was dryer and a bit more tart. i mashed at 154-155 and had around 10% crystal and 30% vienna in it and its sitting at 1.019. :roll:
i had designed the recipe thinking the bugs would tear through it and take it into the single digits.

#6

[quote=“bdaugherty”]from my limited experience i think that the concern with leaving the bugs plenty of food is somewhat overblown. there will be stuff for them to eat if it finishes malty or semi dry. i think it more important for you to think about what you want in your beer. do you want a dry crisp sour or a rich malty one?[/quote]^^^^^ this.

#7

I think I am going to go the rich malty route. That sounds pretty nice.

#8

may have to blend to achieve that.

#9

An Oud Bruin is generally only slightly sour and has more rich malt flavor right? Thats my impression at least. The Flanders red is the one that gets puckeringly sour.

#10

somewhat…depends on what brewer you are talking about. Most of these commercial versions are blends to

#11

I have a Flanders on month 2 still in primary, I only used Roselare. How long do you leave it on the cake? I was planning to go extended secondary with french oak. I figure if its not getting tart by month 9 ill just do a healthy lacto pitch.

#12

We seem to be in the same boat here except mine is three months old in the primary. I was planning on going six months in primary and then pitching onto some french oak and letting that ride for a while before figuring out a plan for blending half the batch and maybe bottling half straight up. From what I gathered some people say rack right away, some say wait a few months, some say just leave it on there.

#13

We seem to be in the same boat here except mine is three months old in the primary. I was planning on going six months in primary and then pitching onto some french oak and letting that ride for a while before figuring out a plan for blending half the batch and maybe bottling half straight up. From what I gathered some people say rack right away, some say wait a few months, some say just leave it on there.[/quote]

It would be ok to rack for extended aging and get it on the oak. Lambics are traditionally left in the primary the whole time. I usually rack my flanders to secondary after 1 month or 2 then dump the oak in and let it go for a year or so

#14

I racked my flanders after 2 months and wish i waited longer. SG was 1.017 and it was barely tart. Only pitched roselare (made a starter) and nothing else.

#15

[quote=“Wahoo”]I racked my flanders after 2 months and wish i waited longer[/quote]You shouldn’t rack off the bugs until you’re putting the beer in a keg or bottling.

#16

I rack to a carboy for extended secondary after a month or two, if you don’t you can get quite a bit of acetic character. If it primaried in a carboy you could leave it, I’ve done that before too. When I rack from a bucket primary, I’ll carry over a decent amount of yeast cake. It has always made a nice pellicle after a few months.

If you aren’t getting enough tartness, throw in some dregs from a sour beer. That really seems to favor the lacto/pedio over the Brett.

#17

Racked to secondary or bottles or keg. Bottling at that gravity with a sour is bottle bombs waiting to happen. If you just racked to secondary that would be fine plenty of bugs in there

#18

[quote=“tom sawyer”]I rack to a carboy for extended secondary after a month or two, if you don’t you can get quite a bit of acetic character. If it primaried in a carboy you could leave it, I’ve done that before too. When I rack from a bucket primary, I’ll carry over a decent amount of yeast cake. It has always made a nice pellicle after a few months.

If you aren’t getting enough tartness, throw in some dregs from a sour beer. That really seems to favor the lacto/pedio over the Brett.[/quote]

acetic is from to much oxygen…you will get that if You leave it in the bucket, if it is a carboy you shouldnt have much to worry about

#19

Based on this feedback, I’m tempted to just add the chips to primary and age it that way. The sour I drink the most is Rodenbach and it doesn’t ever seem to have any dregs. Any suggestions? Duchesse?

#20

I beleive dushesse is pasturized especcially for how cloying sweet it is.

Here is a list of viable dregs

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/20 ... dregs.html
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