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First time sour

I plan to brew a Oud Bruin in two weeks and just had a few questions. I plan to primary ferment with WLP004-Irish ale yeast. Then pitch in the Wyeast Roeselare. Should I move from primary to secondary to add the bugs or just pitch them in the primary? On top of the old yeast cake. I have read that the bugs will eat the yeast but I can’t imagine a whole cake. Also how long should I expect till it gets a nice sour taste? I see people let stuff sit for a extremely long time but then Jamil says (not verbatim) on the Oud bruin show something like; let it go for a month and then keg it and pull a sample every week till it gets to where you like it. If this is the preferred method should I bleed the pressure off the keg every few days? Do bugs generate gas in a large enough quantity. Will a pellicle form in that short of a time? Will it reform in my keg? Just looking to clear up a few things I’m not certain about. The recipe I have made is fairly simple my goal is to hopefully have a sour tang with some body and flavor complexity. I am no expert when it comes to drinking sour beers but I have had several that I don’t care for at all that tasted like cherry medicine or seemed to just be sour with no backing of any sort. Also should I keep a gallon of wort in a separate container and add the bugs so they can start growing and be active before adding to the carboy of fermented wort? Will they be fine going right into a not so friendly environment? The recipe is

11 LB-pilsner
1 LB-Special B
1 LB- Biscuit Malt
1 OZ- Hallertauer 60 min- This will give me a BeerSmith estimated 16.4 IBU

Estimated O.G. 1.060-NB crush usually gets me .002-3 higher. SRM 18.4 ABV 6.1%-Beersmith doesn’t seem to change when I add or remove the Roeselare? Thanks.

Ferment, transfer, pitch Roselaere. I have yet to get really good results with just the Roselaere, not nearly sour enough for my taste, so I also add dregs from commercial sours every now and then to help add some more complexity.

For a first time run I will stick with what I have unless I am unhappy with the results. Would you mash high to provide “unfermentable” sugars for the bugs? Any other suggestions or things to be aware of? In the case I am unhappy with the level of sourness I can get a range of Jolly Pumpkin beers if the dregs from one is better then another?

I always pitch my bugs with in the primary. Some I rack to secondary some I do not. These are all time…if it is not sour enough let it go longer, quickest I have had a sour done was about 6 or 7 months, but that was with East Coast yeast.
Jamil’s a good brewer but his sour recomendations have never worked out very well for me.

from my limited experience i think that the concern with leaving the bugs plenty of food is somewhat overblown. there will be stuff for them to eat if it finishes malty or semi dry. i think it more important for you to think about what you want in your beer.
do you want a dry crisp sour or a rich malty one?

i have a ten month old red ale with roselare that i wish was dryer and a bit more tart. i mashed at 154-155 and had around 10% crystal and 30% vienna in it and its sitting at 1.019. :roll:
i had designed the recipe thinking the bugs would tear through it and take it into the single digits.

[quote=“bdaugherty”]from my limited experience i think that the concern with leaving the bugs plenty of food is somewhat overblown. there will be stuff for them to eat if it finishes malty or semi dry. i think it more important for you to think about what you want in your beer. do you want a dry crisp sour or a rich malty one?[/quote]^^^^^ this.

I think I am going to go the rich malty route. That sounds pretty nice.

may have to blend to achieve that.

An Oud Bruin is generally only slightly sour and has more rich malt flavor right? Thats my impression at least. The Flanders red is the one that gets puckeringly sour.

somewhat…depends on what brewer you are talking about. Most of these commercial versions are blends to

I have a Flanders on month 2 still in primary, I only used Roselare. How long do you leave it on the cake? I was planning to go extended secondary with french oak. I figure if its not getting tart by month 9 ill just do a healthy lacto pitch.

We seem to be in the same boat here except mine is three months old in the primary. I was planning on going six months in primary and then pitching onto some french oak and letting that ride for a while before figuring out a plan for blending half the batch and maybe bottling half straight up. From what I gathered some people say rack right away, some say wait a few months, some say just leave it on there.

We seem to be in the same boat here except mine is three months old in the primary. I was planning on going six months in primary and then pitching onto some french oak and letting that ride for a while before figuring out a plan for blending half the batch and maybe bottling half straight up. From what I gathered some people say rack right away, some say wait a few months, some say just leave it on there.[/quote]

It would be ok to rack for extended aging and get it on the oak. Lambics are traditionally left in the primary the whole time. I usually rack my flanders to secondary after 1 month or 2 then dump the oak in and let it go for a year or so

I racked my flanders after 2 months and wish i waited longer. SG was 1.017 and it was barely tart. Only pitched roselare (made a starter) and nothing else.

[quote=“Wahoo”]I racked my flanders after 2 months and wish i waited longer[/quote]You shouldn’t rack off the bugs until you’re putting the beer in a keg or bottling.

I rack to a carboy for extended secondary after a month or two, if you don’t you can get quite a bit of acetic character. If it primaried in a carboy you could leave it, I’ve done that before too. When I rack from a bucket primary, I’ll carry over a decent amount of yeast cake. It has always made a nice pellicle after a few months.

If you aren’t getting enough tartness, throw in some dregs from a sour beer. That really seems to favor the lacto/pedio over the Brett.

Racked to secondary or bottles or keg. Bottling at that gravity with a sour is bottle bombs waiting to happen. If you just racked to secondary that would be fine plenty of bugs in there

[quote=“tom sawyer”]I rack to a carboy for extended secondary after a month or two, if you don’t you can get quite a bit of acetic character. If it primaried in a carboy you could leave it, I’ve done that before too. When I rack from a bucket primary, I’ll carry over a decent amount of yeast cake. It has always made a nice pellicle after a few months.

If you aren’t getting enough tartness, throw in some dregs from a sour beer. That really seems to favor the lacto/pedio over the Brett.[/quote]

acetic is from to much oxygen…you will get that if You leave it in the bucket, if it is a carboy you shouldnt have much to worry about

Based on this feedback, I’m tempted to just add the chips to primary and age it that way. The sour I drink the most is Rodenbach and it doesn’t ever seem to have any dregs. Any suggestions? Duchesse?

I beleive dushesse is pasturized especcially for how cloying sweet it is.

Here is a list of viable dregs

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/20 ... dregs.html
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