First Lager - Oktoberfest

Best practices in brewing are fairly well understood.

Take a look at the book ‘Yeast’, it’ll help you establish best practice.

http://www.amazon.com/Yeast-Practical-F ... 0937381969[/quote]

I realize that you are being helpful but in a number of threads you come off as incredibly condescending. Not everyone on the forums have the same level of brewing knowledge and has read the same books. Were all here to help each other out.

I may be misreading your tone and if I did I apologize.

I am not picking up any bad vibe from jd but I am known for being short myself (at least that what my wife says :lol: )

I would urge you to pick up Noonan’s Brewing Lagers over JZ/White’s Yeast… Probably my favorite homebrewing book.

I am with Matt and Denny, once you raise the temps for a D-rest there is no benefit to slowly attempering yeast. This is the modern lager fermentation schedule. The classic old school was no D-rest and slowly lowering temps and lagering a loooong time. Tons of variations of both but these are the 2 schools.

I am shooting for 30 days grains to glass for my munich helles. Kudos to Josh for keeping Marzen tradition. Probably decocted it too…

Aww hell no! No decotion! :lol: But I do brew it in March for traditional reasons and for the same reasons the Germans did… easier to control ferm temps!

Yeah like I said, maybe I was just reading the tone wrong. It’s not the first time I’ve done that on the internet and I promise it wont be the last :cheers:

Here’s an excellent discussion on brewing lagers. Lots of options based on professional and home brewing:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti ... ing_Lagers

[quote=“Old_Dawg”]Here’s an excellent discussion on brewing lagers. Lots of options based on professional and home brewing:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti ... ing_Lagers[/quote]

Cool…thanks Ol Dawg.

Our own Ken Lenard has some really good info on his website as well.

Racking the Ofest to 5 gal carboy for lagering today. It was brewed on 8/3.

Should I purge the carboy with CO2? Or should I expect there’s enough CO2 still in solution that will release and protect it as it lagers?

Just racked it over and it seems to have plenty of CO2 still in solution. Had to pour back and forth from glass to glass a LOT to get bubbles to back down for gravity reading. Looks like about 1.015 down from 1.054 so about 71% attenuation. The Wyeast says 73-77 % so maybe I’ll get a couple more points out of it and the headspace concern should take care of itself? :?:

[quote=“dannyboy58”]Racking the Ofest to 5 gal carboy for lagering today. It was brewed on 8/3.

Should I purge the carboy with CO2? Or should I expect there’s enough CO2 still in solution that will release and protect it as it lagers?

Just racked it over and it seems to have plenty of CO2 still in solution. Had to pour back and forth from glass to glass a LOT to get bubbles to back down for gravity reading. Looks like about 1.015 down from 1.054 so about 71% attenuation. The Wyeast says 73-77 % so maybe I’ll get a couple more points out of it and the headspace concern should take care of itself? :?: [/quote]

Definitely purge. I even go ahead and carbonate before lagering.

[quote=“Denny”][quote=“dannyboy58”]Racking the Ofest to 5 gal carboy for lagering today. It was brewed on 8/3.

Should I purge the carboy with CO2? Or should I expect there’s enough CO2 still in solution that will release and protect it as it lagers?

Just racked it over and it seems to have plenty of CO2 still in solution. Had to pour back and forth from glass to glass a LOT to get bubbles to back down for gravity reading. Looks like about 1.015 down from 1.054 so about 71% attenuation. The Wyeast says 73-77 % so maybe I’ll get a couple more points out of it and the headspace concern should take care of itself? :?: [/quote]

Definitely purge. I even go ahead and carbonate before lagering.[/quote]

I thought of doing that but unfortunately don’t have a keg available. So just drop a CO2 line in head space and open the valve for a few seconds?

Yep, that’ll do it!

I managed to free up a keg after this beer was in the conditioning carboy for a week. So it’s been in the keg for almost a month now. I tasted it. OK I’ve had a few pints of it. It’s pretty good. Maybe a little on the sweet side. It finished out at 1.014 from 1.054 so 73% attenuation which is right at the bottom of the projected range. Starter was built to exceed mrmalty recommendations. I used 2 packs of Wy 2633 Oktoberfest lager yeast and did a 2L starter, swirled periodically, chilled and decanted, then another 2.2L starter, swirled, chilled decanted pitched and held at 50. Wort was oxygenated about 60 seconds with a stone. There was a 36 hour lag before signs of fermentation. Held it at 50 until K started to drop, 10 days then raised to mid 60s for D rest.

Next time should I make a bigger starter? I know I could oxygenate a little longer. The tank ran out. The yeast cake in the bottom of the carboy was pretty thin. I think maybe 800 ML when I poured it off into a mason jar.

[quote=“dannyboy58”]I managed to free up a keg after this beer was in the conditioning carboy for a week. So it’s been in the keg for almost a month now. I tasted it. OK I’ve had a few pints of it. It’s pretty good. Maybe a little on the sweet side. It finished out at 1.014 from 1.054 so 73% attenuation which is right at the bottom of the projected range. Starter was built to exceed mrmalty recommendations. I used 2 packs of Wy 2633 Oktoberfest lager yeast and did a 2L starter, swirled periodically, chilled and decanted, then another 2.2L starter, swirled, chilled decanted pitched and held at 50. Wort was oxygenated about 60 seconds with a stone. There was a 36 hour lag before signs of fermentation. Held it at 50 until K started to drop, 10 days then raised to mid 60s for D rest.

Next time should I make a bigger starter? I know I could oxygenate a little longer. The tank ran out. The yeast cake in the bottom of the carboy was pretty thin. I think maybe 800 ML when I poured it off into a mason jar.[/quote]

I don’t think it’s too little yeast. I’d look at recipe and procedure.

I was thinking the same thing Denny. With that recipe and a mash temp of 153° I would expect that FG. Not to mention if your thermometer is even a degree off it will result in even less fermentables. This is why I do a hockhurz mash with my lagers as I find it gives me the body I want while allowing me to drive down the FG a little.

So Loopie would you say mash at 151/152 or change up the grain bill a bit? Or do you think it’s really necessary to do a step mash AND decoction to get a solid Oktoberfest?

I’ve done a step mash before. Never done a decoction.

Denny what was the mash schedule for your Oktoberfest? Did you decoct?

I can assure you that Denny did NOT decoct! :lol: A hockhurz mash doesn’t necessarily require a decoction and I don’t do it. Just ramp the temps up slowly. I think your grain bill is fine, if that’s what you like. I use something similar to Denny’s with more pils. I think the mash temp is your issue. Next year try a hockhurz mash, if possible, and see if it helps.

Of course, all this is moot if you like the beer you produced.

[quote=“dannyboy58”]So Loopie would you say mash at 151/152 or change up the grain bill a bit? Or do you think it’s really necessary to do a step mash AND decoction to get a solid Oktoberfest?

I’ve done a step mash before. Never done a decoction.

Denny what was the mash schedule for your Oktoberfest? Did you decoct?[/quote]

Single infusion at 150 for 90 min. Me do a decoction???

[quote=“Denny”][quote=“dannyboy58”]
Denny what was the mash schedule for your Oktoberfest? Did you decoct?[/quote]
Me do a decoction???[/quote]

Them’s fightin’ words where I come from: luckily this ain’t where I’m from. :slight_smile:

I like it. It’s just a tad sweet. I think a lower mash temp would achieve what I want. I’ll likely brew this again in the next couple months and lager it longer. I’ve come into 2 more kegs and will have more lagering capacity.

[quote=“Denny”]I’m about to try this…http://brulosophy.com/lager-method/

Chill wort to pitching temp (48°-53°F), pitch adequately sized starter (decanted), set regulator to initial fermentation temp (50°-55°F), and leave beer to ferment 5 days. (+5 days)

On the morning of the 5th day (beer should be over 50% attenuated), remove probe from side of fermentor so it measures ambient temp inside chamber and bump regulator up 3°-5°F; continue raising ambient temp 3°-5°F every 12 hours until you reach 65°F then leave it for 2-3 days to finish fermenting and cleaning up. (+5 days = 10 days)

On day 11, start ramping the ambient temp of the chamber down 5°F every 12 hours until it reaches 30°F and let it cold crash/lager for 3-4 more days. (+8 days = 18 days)

Rack cold (and usually very clear) beer to kegs, put kegs in kegerator/keezer on gas, leave for a week, serve! (+7 days = 24 days)[/quote]

I was intrigued by this when I first saw it, and decided to go ahead and try it with a Chech Pils. I’m now in the process of dialing my temp down after the D-rest, and my converted wine-fridge fermentation chamber can only go down to the low 40s. Will that be problematic? Should I fine with some gelatin to help clear the lager? Or more drastically, move some kegs around and use my chest freezer as a makeshift fermention chamber?

Maybe this is a stupid comment but if the original poster thinks his beer is a bit too sweet maybe adding just a smidge more bittering hops might correct much of that problem. I also agree however that mashing for a more fermentable wort is also necessary. Most of the good German beers are actually fairly dry, malty but dry. I personally think Oktoberfests are difficult to make well because there is a balancing act going on; you want malty but dry (at least in my opinion) and the bitterness has to be just right, hard to do I think.

I’ve got a CAP going right now that I’m fermenting with 2206. Once I rack it into secondary I will do a Munich Dunkel and possibly an Oktoberfest after that. I really hate growing up starters so once I have a bunch of lager yeast going I like to make at least two in a row to avoid that on my subsequent beers. I have had really good luck the the Dunkels in the past but I may try dropping the mash temperature a little to try and dry the beer out even more. I must admit however, I love doing decoctions; it makes the house smell like pumpernickel bread baking. Now that I think about it, maybe I should try doing the Oktoberfest first then the Dunkell… :smiley: