Kids: I have been playing with water, mostly diluting with distilled to get my bicarb down and then adjusting chloride and sulfate with CaCl and gypsum based on style. One area I have neglected was Na. I only have about 13ppm of Na in my water and by the time I dilute (anywhere from 25% to over 75%), my number is down around 4-6ppm. As a result, I think I’m getting some “bland” beers that could use some POP and I’m thinking that some kosher salt (or other source of NaCl) is what I’m missing. I see that some of the styles in the Bru’N’Water profiles so desired Na levels of anywhere from 15ppm to about 25ppm. Anyone pay specific attention to this? Cheers Beerheads.
I don’t think you want a noticeable salt component in any but a few styles of beer and the general ROT is to keep either Na+ or Cl- low if the other is high, maybe 50ppm or more (not sure on the actual taste threshold, might be 100ppm, would obviously vary by taster). I think of gypsum though, when I want to make a beer “pop” or sparkle - it adds a crisp, minerally component even when hop character is on the low end, like with English Bitters.
Yeah, I definitely don’t want it to be “noticeable”… I’m not trying to make a “salty” beer. But I wonder if having a low Na number like 4ppm is like having some sort of food that has no salt in it. When I make a beer with a very low Na number, is that like having soup with no salt? The flavor just kind of misses your tastebuds. I realize that adding something like kosher salt (NaCl) is going to add chlorides too so something to keep in mind, for sure. Thanks for the reply.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think Na+ by itself adds any 'salty" component, you need a corresponding concentration of Cl- in solution. One of the caveats to using baking soda to increase pH in darker beers is that you also typically want higher chlorides in these beers for a more malty profile and baking soda contains sodium, so you can end up in the “salty” zone as the sodium:chloride ratio approaches 1.
Going back to your OP, have you checked the pH of the finished beer? “Bland” can also be a result of higher pH.
Even at 100 ppm sodium, you aren’t going to have a beer taste salty. But you could start developing conditions where other ions (mainly sulfate) create antagonistic flavor (bad) effects at higher levels. In researching for the book, Palmer did some taste tests with baking soda in a lite beer sample where he added successive amounts and neutralized the bicarb with acid to keep the pH comparable. After he reported his results to the rest of the team, I suggested he also evaluate the effect of table salt additions. In either case he found that at 100 ppm sodium, the flavor was fuller and not really salty. He reported the flavor may have dropped off a bit when the sodium was above 100 ppm, but it wasn’t terrible. There are numerous resources that indicate that 150 ppm sodium is acceptable. I suggest that 100 ppm is a more appropriate upper limit in good beers and we should all recognize that there are no water profiles from a notable brewing city that has sodium above 60 ppm.
Do experiment with a little more sodium. I think you will like the effect in some beers.
Enjoy!
Its not very scientific but I usually add a generous pinch of sea salt to my brewing water.
Thanks again everyone.
Martin: Would you imagine that a beer (say an Amber Lager of some variety… ABV 5%, SRM 10-12, IBUs around 25-30, etc) would suffer flavorwise if the Na number were as low as 4-5ppm? I wouldn’t even consider getting Na numbers really high as 60ppm… I’m just thinking that if I go from 4ppm to say 16ppm, I’m quadrupling my Na number and possibly getting a but more flavor from the beer. Thanks again.
From the research I’ve read, if you have a water softener, for every grain of hardness removed approximately 8 ppm of sodium is added to your water. I live in an area with hard water (≈13 gpg). Therefore, the sodium in my softened water is just over 100 ppm.
So, should I be using my softened cold water instead of the desalinated water out of my RO system?
Check “Bru’n Water” at https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/
The last page of the spreadsheet discusses the contribution of several minerals and their concentrations in several brewing locations. Well worth the cost (nothing, although you can make a contribution).
It takes a couple of hours initially to understand how all the moving parts work together, but seems to be the ultimate authority at this time on getting your water adjusted to produce the flavors you want.
Ken, a level of 16 ppm may be notable. I typically use about 10 to 25 ppm in all of my brews. I’ve never explored Na levels much higher.
Walters, stay with the RO. Or at least work your way up when exploring a higher Na level. The softened water is not likely to be all that tasty, especially if there is also Cl and/or SO4 in the water.
Thanks again to everyone. Maybe the best thing for me to do is just get my Na back to “pre-dilution” levels and see where that takes me. When I started diluting with distilled to lower bicarb, I told myself that I needed to get my CL and SO4 back up and adjust from there but I didn’t really pay much attention to the Na. By adding just ½ gram of kosher salt to my kettle, I would be getting back to my pre-dilution level of 13ppm (that’s if I diluted 50%) so maybe I’ll start with that and see what happens. The last thing I want to do is make 5 gallons of noticeably salty beer. Been there, done that! :oops: Cheers Beerheads.
