Dawsons Kriek questions

I read the notes and they say it’s possible to let it age a year before transferring to a secondary. Isn’t there a pretty heavy risk of autolysis at this point? Also, I’m doing my primary in a plastic fermentation bucket; am I running some risks there as well (i.e. oxydizing, off flavors, etc.)?

If you have done this kit or style how did you do it and how did it turn out?

I’m assuming you talking about leaving it in 2° for up to a year, so there shouldn’t be a ton of yeast left in the beer. There probably will be autolysis of the regular yeast component of the lambic blend that is still present. The brett and lactic will not die as quickly, and will eat the dead sacch yeast. I aged a barley wine in secondary for over a year. There was plenty of yeast at the bottom of the carboy by the end, but no off flavors.

Some would argue that a plastic bucket is a better vessel for sour fermentations. The brett and lactic like having some oxygen around, and will sour the beer a little faster. I think they might also create a slightly different flavor profile.

I brewed mine in March of 2012, racked it onto cherries in July (3 months), and bottled it in September. I did it all in glass. This was my first attempt at a sour, but I think it turned out pretty well. There’s a good sour kick to it (I don’t know if I’d want much more at this point), but I think the cherry could be bolder(use more puree, extract at bottling?). If you really like your beer sour, then maybe try to 2° for a year, otherwise I think you would be fine with a shorter one. Sample it as it ages and bottle when you like it.

I’ve done 3 now and I’ve changed time and techniques every time. The first batch was to recipe. Racked onto cherries after a month and 2ndary for 9 months before I bottled. It took another 3-6months to mature in bottle. That was 1.5 years ago and I haven’t noticed much change. It is dry, and has a nice sour punch but as has been said…there isn’t a lot of cherry flavor. You just get notes since most of it fermented. Still a great beer.

The next one I just bottled. I left it for a month, then added 1 can of cherries to primary, I let that sit 3 more months and racked that onto the 2nd can of cherries. (I racked another something onto the primary cake…don’t remember what right now) After 6 months I added a quart on cherry tart cherry concentrate. I let that sit for a few months and it seemed to have stalled…Not sour still a little sweet.

Luckily I had another that I did close to recipe…I think it racked it onto cherries after 3 months. It was REALLY sour. I took a gallon from each and blended them. Doing that kick started fermentation on both of them. So 2 months later I bottled with a fg @ 1.006. This one is awesome! I cant wait for it. Much more cherry flavor and perfect level of sour.

The 3rd is ready to bottle, I just need to find the time.

If you want more cherry flavor, you’d need to find a non fermentable extract. Adding puree or concentrate at botteling would ferment out and you’d likely end up with bottle bombs.

This reminds me, I need to brew another…

I transferred mine to a carboy after a couple of months. The pellicle will help protect against oxidation though, and some oxidation is part of this brew anyway. Its traditionally aged in barrels and they breathe.

Okay sounds good. My main concern with oxygen I suppose is what I’ve read about it contributing vinegar-like quality. Has anyone experienced this?

You may get a very slight acetic character but it isn’t unpleasant. I’ve never had one get really vinegary.

Don’t a lot of people suggest that a bucket is too permeable to oxygen for a sour beer? Could be wrong, or could just be one of those myths out there that I picked up, either way I don’t use buckets so I guess I wouldn’t really know. If you do use a bucket I would dedicate that as a sour bucket just in case some bacteria gets embedded in there it could ruin other batches.

This was one of the main reasons I posted this topic so you’re not alone in the myth pick-up if it is one. I wrote in permanent red marker “SOUR” across the side of the bucket, because no matter what this beer turns out like I’ll be making them forever. The GF and I just love 'em too much.

On the question of oxygen diffusion, from “Wild Brews” by Jeff Sparrow (using data from Raj Apte:
Large Rodenbach Barrel: 0.53 cc/L/year of O2
Small Rodenbach Barrel: 0.86
Wine Barrel: 8.5
HDPE Fermenter: 20.
Homebrew Barrel: 23
Homebrew bucket: 220.
Glass Carboy w/
silicone stopper: 17
Glass Carboy w/
wooden stopper: 0.10
Glass carboy w/
30 cm vinyl
immersion tube: 0.31

Original work:

http://web.archive.org/web/201004100251 ... dale.shtml

[quote=“abrown001”]On the question of oxygen diffusion, from “Wild Brews” by Jeff Sparrow (using data from Raj Apte:
Large Rodenbach Barrel: 0.53 cc/L/year of O2
Small Rodenbach Barrel: 0.86
Wine Barrel: 8.5
HDPE Fermenter: 20.
Homebrew Barrel: 23
Homebrew bucket: 220.
Glass Carboy w/
silicone stopper: 17
Glass Carboy w/
wooden stopper: 0.10
Glass carboy w/
30 cm vinyl
immersion tube: 0.31

Original work:

http://web.archive.org/web/201004100251 ... dale.shtml[/quote]

The part of this that bothers me is making a distinction between HDPE Fermenter and Homebrew Bucket. Buckets used for homebrewing (at least most of them) are made of HDPE. It’s the same stuff that’s used in an HDPE conical (which is what I assume he’s referring to in that line).

I’ve made sours in plastic with absolutely no acetic character. Acetic bacteria is not very aggressive unless there’s tons of sugar left. I wouldn’t worry about it.

[quote=“Vaughn_S”]

The part of this that bothers me is making a distinction between HDPE Fermenter and Homebrew Bucket.[/quote]
I’m not sure what his test method was. If he was pressurizing the containers, I would expect that the grommet seal and lid ring seal on a bucket wouldn’t do too well. They provide a good seal at fermentation pressures, so the numbers may not be ideal for that data point.