Dark Belgian (Rochefort 10 clone) help needed

Beer Recipe Design
1

So a few years back my friend’s dad highly recommended that I try a Rochefort 10. After having one, I understood why it came highly recommended. Wasn’t long before I decided to try making a sort of clone, just for the fun of it. In searching for a clone recipe, I found that there really isn’t much out there for it. The recipe I found that seemed to be the most reasonable was from Stout Fellow. Of course, the recipe was listed in Metric, so I had to convert to US measurements and because at the time I was partial mashing on the stove and my ability to all grain was limited (plus the Metric amount worked out to 6.6 gallons), I cut the recipe as closely in half as I could. Then, lacking the sugars he specified, I substituted using dark Candi syrup (D-180), table sugar and light brown sugar. The result was actually quite agreeably good. The bad news is, I’m down to less than half a case and I want to brew more, but since I have the ability to make a much larger quantity this time around, I want to make either a full batch (11 gallons into the fermenters) or as close to it as I can manage. And that’s where I’m getting into a dispute with BeerSmith…

So I’d like some help from ya’ll to try to get this worked out so I can produce something similar to what I already made, just in a larger quantity. I spent most of the afternoon fighting with it and I’m not convinced that I’m on the right track.

First off, here’s the recipe from Stout Fellow converted to U.S. measurements:
“Rochefortesque”
6.6 gallons
90 minute boil
70 minute mash @ 150.8*

13.23 # German Pilsner
1.1 # Caramel/Crystal 120L
1.32 # Special B
1.32 # Flaked Wheat
0.66 # Black Malt (specified that it may be best to use Carafa or De-Bittered)

1.1 # Demerara sugar @ 20
1.1 # Soft dark sugar @ 20

2.29 oz East Kent Golding @ 80
1.41 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker @ 10

Now, my attempt at it…
Monk’s Ten - BIAB
my notes specify that I oversparged and had 4.25 gallons pre-boil and around 3.25 or so at bottling, but no other specifics on volumes

6.5 # German Pilsner
0.6 # Caramel/Crystal 120L
0.75 # Special B
0.75 # Flaked Wheat
0.36 # Debittered Black

0.6 # Table sugar (I believe I did half and half table and light brown sugar) @ 10
0.6 # Dark candi syrup D-180 @ 10

0.75 oz East Kent Golding @ 60
0.6 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker @ 10
0.4 oz Amarillo @ flameout

*Chill times were extended due to the lack of an ice bath, I just did a cold tap water bath. I also managed to fail at noting gravity readings with the exception of the FG of 1.002. In theory, my starting gravity into the fermenter should have been around 1.098 although I suspect my efficiency wasn’t up to par with that prediction because it doesn’t taste like it’s over 9-10% ABV. IBU was supposed to be around 25.45. BeerSmith claims that what I brewed should be a 1.074 OG with 13.3 IBU which doesn’t match very well with what my thoughts on the taste are.

2

Now, when I put Stout Fellow’s recipe in Beersmith using the generic BIAB brew settings and tell it to scale to my equipment settings, I get the following.

21 # 14 oz Pilsner
2 # 3 oz Flaked Wheat
1 # 15.6 oz Special B
1 # 13.7 oz Demerara (substituted to table sugar)
1 # 11.1 oz Soft dark sugar (substituted to D-180 syrup)
1 # 10.3 oz Caramel 120
15.8 oz Debittered Black

3.74 oz EKG @ 60
2.30 oz Hallertau @ 10

OG - 1.081
IBU - 27.4

I should mention, my current equipment is set for a target batch of 11 gallons into the fermenters

3

Telling BeerSmith to scale my original results in numbers not too far below Stout Fellow’s recipe that I scaled, but it retains the pitifully low IBU number of 13.3 and still gives me an OG of 1.074.

18 # 4.8 oz Pilsner
2 # 2.9 oz Special B
2 # 1.8 oz Flaked Wheat
1 # 15 oz Soft dark sugar (substituted to D-180 syrup)
1 # 14 oz Demerara (substituted to table sugar, will divide between table and light brown)
1 # 11.9 oz Caramel 120
1 # 0.8 oz Debittered Black

1.44 oz EKG @ 60
1.16 oz Hallertau @ 10
0.77 oz Amarillo @ 5 (to adjust for the slow chill)

Now, I tried tweaking those numbers to be more like the ones from Stout Fellow and this is what I came up with, but I’m not sure if I’m on the right track or not.

22 # Pilsner
2 # 3 oz Special B
2 # 2 oz Flaked Wheat
2 # D-180 candi syrup
2 # light brown sugar
1 # 12 oz Caramel 120
1 # Debittered Black

3.25 oz EKG @ 60
2.25 oz Hallertau @ 10
1 oz Amarillo @ 5

OG - 1.084
IBU - 25.8

As above, these are numbers for an 11 gallon batch into the fermenters

4

Now there is the problem, you have been all over those grain bills and still wondering… I would cut it in half do a small batch, repeat so you can tweak it, trying to find what you want to spot light… But the biggest one fer me is the yeast…I feel belgiums git a lot of their flavor from the yeast… I would spend some time researching some of the various yeasts’ Sneezles61

5

In my opinion, that’s too much Special B and Crystal 120 for a BDSA. Rochefort does have more caramel flavor than beers like St Bernardus 12, but I’ve made a few of these beers and I’m thinking your recipe will come across more like a Belgian Barleywine than a Trappist strong dark.

6

I did cut it in half and make a small batch originally. It’s the scaling up that’s getting me worked up since I can’t just double the recipe that I took from (Stout Fellow’s) because that would give me 13.2 gallons (I’m guessing post boil). I thought the easy thing to do would be to just stick it into BeerSmith and tell it to scale to my equipment. The real head scratcher came from when I put the information from my original half batch into BeerSmith and it told me that I didn’t make a half batch (in terms of OG and IBU). I don’t understand where the discrepancy came from. At the time where I cut the batch in half, I didn’t have BeerSmith so I plugged it into Brewers Friend and got numbers of OG - 1.098 and IBU - 25.45. BeerSmith tells me I’m wrong. Of course, after I got BeerSmith, I was never able to figure out how to make it come up with the right numbers, it was always considerably different than the numbers I got from the brewing app on my phone and from Brewer’s Friend when it came to my old equipment. So I’m just trying to figure out what to do for scaling it up.

As far as yeast goes, I didn’t bother to post that because I’m using the same yeast that I used last time. I was happy with the result, so I don’t really want to change it. I used Wyeast 3787. Since it’s going to be in two fermenters, I’ve been considering splitting yeast for the fun of it and use something else in one.

7

The original amounts, when I cut the batch in half, worked out fine for what I was trying to achieve. Looking back, I guess I should have mentioned that my current equipment, my target is an 11 gallon batch.

8

Nobody has any input?

9

I was giving you an idea as to trying to tinker with a small batch to git close as possible to what you feel would be Dark Belgium. From there you double it. I’m not a big fan so, I can’t quote a grain bill. Sneezles61