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Cascadian Dark Ale recipe questions

below is a recipe I was writing/playing with. What are your thoughts? Look ok? Do you think using special B would be an issue? Probably going to dry hop with columbus and chinook.

Would you change anything? and if so, what?

CDA
Cascadian Dark Ale

Recipe Specs

Batch Size (G): 5.5
Total Grain (lb): 13.875
Total Hops (oz): 3.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.064 (°P): 15.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.016 (°P): 4.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 6.29 %
Colour (SRM): 37.8 (EBC): 74.5
Bitterness (IBU): 75.7 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 75

Grain Bill

10.000 lb American 2-Row (72.07%)
2.000 lb Munich I (14.41%)
0.750 lb Special-B (5.41%)
0.625 lb Carafa III malt (4.5%)
0.250 lb Chocolate (1.8%)
0.250 lb Crystal 120 (1.8%)

Hop Bill

0.25 oz Columbus Pellet (14.2% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (First Wort) (0 oz/Gal)
0.50 oz Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (First Wort) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.75 oz Nugget Pellet (12.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.50 oz Columbus Pellet (14.2% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.25 oz Chinook Pellet (11.4% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0 oz/Gal)
0.25 oz Columbus Pellet (14.2% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0 oz/Gal)
0.50 oz Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)

Misc Bill

Single step Infusion at 152°F for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 65°F with Wyeast 1272 - American Ale II

[quote=“muddywater_grant”]Would you change anything? and if so, what?[/quote]Other than the name? :wink: Seriously, I would add some hops at flameout, rest look good to me.

I was debating on upping the carafar III to 0.75 and dropping the chocolate all together. Also upping the 2-row to 11# and dropping the munich to 1#.

I just really like using munich. I think it adds some grain depth. but it may just all be in my mind.

That would change the srm to 36.7. Still well within range of an CDA.

i would drop the special B. an increase the late addition hops a bit.

with dark beers, it’s more difficult for the hop flavor and aroma to overcome. dropping the special B will help. upping the 10min and 5min additions by half an ounce will help a lot. munich is OK IMO, and dropping the chocolate is up to you (i would)

I’ve done a couple India black ales before and it looks good to me. I would agree and tone down the chocolate a bit. And definitely dry hop. Mt. Hood works well with this style. At least that’s my experience.

[quote=“muddywater_grant”]I was debating on upping the carafar III to 0.75 and dropping the chocolate all together. Also upping the 2-row to 11# and dropping the munich to 1#.

I just really like using munich. I think it adds some grain depth. but it may just all be in my mind.

That would change the srm to 36.7. Still well within range of an CDA.[/quote]

I agree 100% about dropping the chocolate. The carafa will give you the dark color you’re looking for in a CDA without the astringent taste of chocolate malt.

I’d leave the munich at 2lbs… but I too LOVE Munich.

DRY HOP, DRY HOP, DRY HOP!!! Oh yeah… and then DRY HOP some more!!

you are probably right. a mix of chinook and simcoe at flameout would be good. Probably do 0.75oz chinook, so that I actually use a full oz of it in the recipe, and an oz of simcoe.

You don’t see any problem with the chocolate or special b? I don’t think either will be that overwhelming in this recipe. but never mind some input.

[quote=“S.Scoggin”]i would drop the special B. an increase the late addition hops a bit.

with dark beers, it’s more difficult for the hop flavor and aroma to overcome. dropping the special B will help. upping the 10min and 5min additions by half an ounce will help a lot. munich is OK IMO, and dropping the chocolate is up to you (i would)[/quote]

When you say drop the special b? do you mean decrease, or remove totally and go to another crystal?

I think I will be dropping the chocolate. and upping the carafa III.

[quote=“muddywater_grant”]

When you say drop the special b? do you mean decrease, or remove totally and go to another crystal?

I think I will be dropping the chocolate. and upping the carafa III.[/quote]

i would drop it completely. but that’s because i don’t really like special-B. i would drop it, and use some crystal 60 instead, maybe .25lb-.5lb to get your total crystal to around 5%

keep in mind, this is what I would do. its up to you, if you like special-B, go for it

so, here is the new version. dropped the chocolate and special b, upped the carafa III.

And now with twice the hops, coming in late additions.

CDA
Cascadian Dark Ale

Recipe Specs

Batch Size (G): 5.5
Total Grain (lb): 13.750
Total Hops (oz): 7.50
Original Gravity (OG): 1.065 (°P): 15.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.016 (°P): 4.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 6.39 %
Colour (SRM): 38.6 (EBC): 76.0
Bitterness (IBU): 71.9 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 75

Grain Bill

10.000 lb American 2-Row (72.73%)
2.000 lb Munich I (14.55%)
1.000 lb Carafa III malt (7.27%)
0.500 lb Crystal 120 (3.64%)
0.250 lb Crystal 60 (1.82%)

Hop Bill

0.25 oz Columbus Pellet (14.2% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (First Wort) (0 oz/Gal)
0.25 oz Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (First Wort) (0 oz/Gal)
0.50 oz Nugget Pellet (12.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.25 oz Columbus Pellet (14.2% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0 oz/Gal)
1.00 oz Chinook Pellet (11.4% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 oz/Gal)
1.00 oz Columbus Pellet (14.2% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 oz/Gal)
0.75 oz Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
1.00 oz Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Aroma) (0.2 oz/Gal) Flameout
1.00 oz Chinook Pellet (11.4% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (0.2 oz/Gal)
1.50 oz Columbus Pellet (14.2% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (0.3 oz/Gal)

Misc Bill

Single step Infusion at 152°F for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 65°F with Wyeast 1272 - American Ale II

So per the updated recipe, I’d say you could drop either the C60 or C120.
Also, per the original recipe you posted, you could’ve left in the special B, dropped the C120 and chocolate malt and would’ve had a nice recipe. Dry hopping isn’t too necessary if you late hop a ton. My black IPA recipe has several ounces in the last 10 minutes and I usually do a hop stand for a bit after flame out.

Refer to my signature regarding the name. :wink:

for comparisons sake, here is Stone’s sublimely Self Righteous clone (or 11th aniversary ale). supposedly directly from stone. presonally i’d dial back the IBU’s a bit, for i have brewed it before (personal taste).

Stone 11th Anniversary Ale Recipe

Grain Bill:

90% pale malt

5% 60°L Crystal

5% Weyermann Carafa III Special

OG target is 20.5°P (1.082 SG) Terminal Gravity target is 4°P (1.016 SG)

Hops:

Bittering at start of boil: 100% Chinook

Flavor hops added at end of boil or whirlpool: 50/50 blend of Simcoe and Amarillo

Target 120 IBU’s.

Ferment with good ale yeast. We used our house yeast.

Dry-Hop with 50/50 blend of Simcoe and Amarillo, use LOTS!

and here is deschutes CDA grains and hops (they don’t post amount/percentages). Gives an idea of how different this style can be

Recipe type: All grain
Batch size: 5 U.S. gallons
Original gravity: 1.067
Final gravity: 1.015-1.018
Boil time: 90 minutes
Fermentation temp: 65° F
Yeast type: English Ale
MALT
Pale Malt
Flaked Oats
Munich Malt
Dark Crystal Malt
Chocolate Malt
Chocolate Wheat Malt
Black Barley
Toasted Oats
Dark Candy Sugar

HOPS
Northern Brewer
Nugget
Centennial
Amarillo
Cascade
Citra

[quote=“S.Scoggin”]for comparisons sake, here is Stone’s sublimely Self Righteous clone (or 11th aniversary ale). supposedly directly from stone. presonally i’d dial back the IBU’s a bit, for i have brewed it before (personal taste).

Stone 11th Anniversary Ale Recipe

Grain Bill:

90% pale malt

5% 60°L Crystal

5% Weyermann Carafa III Special

OG target is 20.5°P (1.082 SG) Terminal Gravity target is 4°P (1.016 SG)

Hops:

Bittering at start of boil: 100% Chinook

Flavor hops added at end of boil or whirlpool: 50/50 blend of Simcoe and Amarillo

Target 120 IBU’s.

Ferment with good ale yeast. We used our house yeast.

Dry-Hop with 50/50 blend of Simcoe and Amarillo, use LOTS![/quote]
I’ve got 2 bombers of this sitting in my beer fridge, can’t wait to drink them! It’s awesome beer.
My None More Black IPA uses blackprinz malt and 50-60L crystal, with an equal amount of simcoe, chinook and cascade, blended and added througout the boil. OG is typically around 1.065, and I shoot for around 70 IBU’s. Sooo good!!! “How much more black can it be? None, none more black.”

[quote=“Beersk”]
I’ve got 2 bombers of this sitting in my beer fridge, can’t wait to drink them! It’s awesome beer.
My None More Black IPA uses blackprinz malt and 50-60L crystal, with an equal amount of simcoe, chinook and cascade, blended and added througout the boil. OG is typically around 1.065, and I shoot for around 70 IBU’s. Sooo good!!! “How much more black can it be? None, none more black.”[/quote]

i like the name :cheers:

it really is a great beer. I am a fan of the ‘style’ despite all the fuss about it. Personally my favorite rendition is ‘bad santa’ by pelican brewery in pacific city Oregon. i have yet to devise my own IBA, black IPA, CDA (whatever the name) into my own recipe. its been something i have been meaning to do. I’m going to england this summer, and plan to come back with a recipe ready-to-go

I’d suggest adding the black malts late in the mash too, for maximum color and minimum roast flavor. I did this and got just what I was after, great black color with very modest black malt flavor that let the hops shine through.

I did a black IIPA and used 85% 2-row and the rest a 50/50 split with special b and carafa III the hop schedule was all chinook and Amarillo came out great. Alot like self righteous.

how late in the mash? I do a 75 mash most of the time. Last 15? 30?

so I reworked a little bit of everything. I am going to go with the special b. I like it. really reworked the hopped schedule. Is five different hops too much. Maybe. But I don’t give a damn. And worked them where they will be an oz of each.
And made a cascadian recipe with no cascade hops.

dry hopping is still up in the air. but I have plenty of choices.

so here it is.

Cascadian Dark Ale

Recipe Specs

Batch Size (G): 5.5
Total Grain (lb): 13.500
Total Hops (oz): 5.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.063 (°P): 15.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.016 (°P): 4.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 6.19 %
Colour (SRM): 35.6 (EBC): 70.1
Bitterness (IBU): 73.5 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 75

Grain Bill

10.000 lb American 2-Row (74.07%)
2.000 lb Munich I (14.81%)
0.750 lb Carafa III malt (5.56%)
0.750 lb Special-B (5.56%)

Hop Bill

0.25 oz Columbus Pellet (14.2% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (First Wort) (0 oz/Gal)
0.50 oz Nugget Pellet (12.3% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (First Wort) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.25 oz Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (First Wort) (0 oz/Gal)
0.50 oz Nugget Pellet (12.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.25 oz Columbus Pellet (14.2% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0 oz/Gal)
1.00 oz Chinook Pellet (11.4% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 oz/Gal)
0.50 oz Columbus Pellet (14.2% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.50 oz Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.50 oz Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Aroma) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.75 oz Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Aroma) (0.1 oz/Gal)

Misc Bill

Single step Infusion at 151°F for 75 Minutes.
Fermented at 68°F with

And I normally get a efficiency of 75-80% so abv should be in the 7% ballpark and an ibu of 69 to 71 range.

Excited to get this one brewed.

Looks yummy. Keep us posted

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