To start, let me say I really like this discussion.
I think homebrewers can meet and beat many of the best commercial examples, particularly of those styles that are best fresh. Whether thats your goal is a different thing altogether.
For me personally, I really only drink commercially-produced beer when I’m out- which is not very often. In the case of being out, I try to get something new to me rather than the tried and true. I only recently tried nearly all the BJCP styles with a study group that I joined. I love to brew and I brew so much that I always have a wide selection of beers of many styles available to me. Those that I think are competition worthy will make it to at least one competition for a less biased opinion. Some of these have won ribbons, some not. I grow my own hops which has the potentially to really produce some outstanding pale ales and other american styles that I just couldn’t buy anywhere. I’m not all that interested in cloning commercial beers unless by doing it I learn something that I can use to create my own recipes.
[quote=“alanzo”]I’ve been homebrewing for close to five years now. Ever since I started I heard this “myth” that I can “Brew beer that is better than I can buy” – or something along those lines. I’m sure many have heard it.
Is there any truth to this or is it a relic of generation’s past?[/quote]
Without a doubt, for the beers that I like to drink, I absolutely believe that I can brew beers that are as good, if not better, than 95% of the commercially available beers of the styles I like to drink.
This, is why I brew.
(I also brew because I really dislike storing and returning bottles to the liquor store.)
consitecny on a pro level is way different in homebrew level. THey usually double there fermenters, to help even things out, have much better process on lots of grain and hops and such. Homebrewers get what they get at the LHBS[/quote]
See, thats what I love, and got me back into brewing. On line suppliers like NB and Midwest get US…yes, little ol’ us! a supply of fresh, premium ingredients delivered in a week or less. That has made all the difference. We, now for the first time the last year or three, have access to the same quality of ingredients that the pros have access to!
I brew better beer than what I can buy locally all the time. I’m not sure about the beers you have listed. There’s not much variety locally, so anything I make is miles better, IMO.
However that’s not saying I can make beer than any store bought brews. That’s not true. I can’t lager, I am still learning about building recipes. It’s a learning game. But with some guidelines and good ingredients, you should make awesome beer.
Wow. I don’t think it’s a myth, not at all!
It did take me a good while to get to the point where I could wholeheartedly that, since when I first started there wasn’t a great choice of quality ingredients like today.
But yeah…it is true that you can equal or outdo the commercial brewers.
In fact, it’s one of the main reasons I’ve continued to brew at home after all these years. That, and the massive cost savings over commercial beers (especially some of the vastly overpriced ones we see on the shelves these days) keeps me interested in brewing as well as continuing the learning process (as well as offering a monthly ‘zen-like’ escape from real life).
And the learning part doesn’t ever stop, really.
Taste in general, and things like “best” or “better than” are fairly subjective judgements.
And I’ve said this before: maybe it’s just that my own palate has simply become accustomed to my “house flavors”… But as far as the “styles” that I enjoy and brew regularly, after several decades of making my own there’s no question at all. I’ll choose the homemade stuff over any commercial example of those beers. Hands down. The only time I buy beer is to revisit an old favorite,try something new to see what the fuss is about, or if I run out of homebrew (and I see to it that I rarely run out). :mrgreen:
I think a lot of it is brewing to your tastes. If you like the combination of cascade and amarillo, you can make an IPA/pale using only those two hops and make a great beer you couldnt find commercially.
I think some of my beers are really good, a lot are decent, very few are not good at all. I think the same can be said for a lot of commercially brewed beer. A few are crazy good, a lot are just good/decent, and there are some that arent good. I know that is going to vary on where you live, but here in CO, there are a few breweries that I think I make just as good as beer as them. Certain styles I make better, others I’m not there yet. A true Belgian or German lager, like mentioned before are going to be hard, but I bet it could be done.
I think people who have been brewing for decades (like the Proffessor above) will be able to best answer this question
consitecny on a pro level is way different in homebrew level. THey usually double there fermenters, to help even things out, have much better process on lots of grain and hops and such. Homebrewers get what they get at the LHBS[/quote]
See, thats what I love, and got me back into brewing. On line suppliers like NB and Midwest get US…yes, little ol’ us! a supply of fresh, premium ingredients delivered in a week or less. That has made all the difference. We, now for the first time the last year or three, have access to the same quality of ingredients that the pros have access to![/quote]
not really, look at there lots and such we dont get to pick what we want, we get what shops get.
Breweries can pick from malt analysis sheets and have more control to keep consistency
I am not saying we dont get quality ingredients, but we do not have control over what we get like breweries can do
[quote=“grainbelt”]I am not saying we dont get quality ingredients, but we do not have control over what we get like breweries can do[/quote]Find a bulk-buy group in your area and you can enjoy the same pricing and quality of a small brewery.
The great thing about beer is that there are so many choices available and we don’t have to commit to any one in particular… commercial or otherwise. I can go out and buy a six pack of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and really enjoy it. Is it the best beer in the world? No. But it is a very good beer and there are a lot of very good beers out there.
I wouldn’t be concerned with trying to make beer that is better than commercial beer. Just try to make very good beer. You’ll enjoy it. In my personal opinion, I usually make beer that is good to very good. Sometimes I’ll end up with a dud… it happens, but occasionally I’ll end up with a beer that as I drink it I think, “That is exactly what I like”. And those are really rewarding ones.
Bottom line, if you enjoy your beer and enjoy the process then you are where you need to be. Refining the process and learning/trying something new when you brew can help keep things from becoming mundane.
[quote=“CapnJB”]… Sometimes I’ll end up with a dud… it happens, but occasionally I’ll end up with a beer that as I drink it I think, “That is exactly what I like”. And those are really rewarding ones.
[/quote]
You nailed it right there. Same thing happens to me on occasion, it’s an awesome feeling. Rarely, if ever, do I actually buy beer that makes me feel that way.
[quote=“Beersk”][quote=“CapnJB”]… Sometimes I’ll end up with a dud… it happens, but occasionally I’ll end up with a beer that as I drink it I think, “That is exactly what I like”. And those are really rewarding ones.
[/quote]
You nailed it right there. Same thing happens to me on occasion, it’s an awesome feeling. Rarely, if ever, do I actually buy beer that makes me feel that way.[/quote]
completly opposite here, I find tons of commercial versions that are just completely awesome, (russian river, cantillon, drei, jp, surly, summit, maine brewing, anchorage brewing, allagash, jester king, ithica,and a ton more etc.)
In my opinion, as a homebrewer, you can get to a point (both equipment and talent wise) that you are ABLE to brew a beer as good as or better than the best commercial examples. Whether you have the recipe nailed is another question.
In the grand scheme of beer making, I think the process is 80% of beer making and the recipe is 20%. By process I mean, avoiding off flavors, getting the most out of what you put in, and hitting everything you are looking for numbers wise. The science of brewing, so to speak.
The art of brewing is the recipe. No matter how perfect your process is, you’re never going to make a great IPA with 50% crystal malt and 10 IBU’s. Having the palate to determine a beer is great is much different than translating that into ingredients and creating the recipe. Preference comes into play as well. If I were to say that Picasso is WAY better than van Gogh, I’m sure some would argue. Same thing goes for the (well made) homebrewed IPA vs Pliny.
[quote=“grainbelt”][quote=“Beersk”][quote=“CapnJB”]… Sometimes I’ll end up with a dud… it happens, but occasionally I’ll end up with a beer that as I drink it I think, “That is exactly what I like”. And those are really rewarding ones.
[/quote]
You nailed it right there. Same thing happens to me on occasion, it’s an awesome feeling. Rarely, if ever, do I actually buy beer that makes me feel that way.[/quote]
completly opposite here, I find tons of commercial versions that are just completely awesome, (russian river, cantillon, drei, jp, surly, summit, maine brewing, anchorage brewing, allagash, jester king, ithica,and a ton more etc.)[/quote]
I agree that those are great breweries that make some great beers, but they are no better than many that I make. The only exception would be Cantillon and the Russian River sours… because I haven’t started making sours yet. My wife and I have both come to love sour beer over the past couple years and the cost of them makes this a priority… so I’m about to dive in. :lol:
My first sour attempt was a berliner weisse. I wasn’t happy with it after a few months and my wife thought I dumped it. I had instead set the keg aside for 6 months to let the lacto continue to work. I carbed it up and poured a glass a few weeks ago and was very happy with it. I brought it in for my wife to try and she immediately assumed it was one of my bottles of Professor Fritz Briem 1809 Berliner Weisse. So she at least found my homebrew to be every bit as good as a commercial example. Batch #2 with some tweaks is in the fermenter now. :cheers:
I brew a lot of IPAs (go figure). For this style the ability to drink it with fresh hops in the keg right after carbonation makes it better than having something that has been warehoused, shipped and sat on a shelf.
you can get plenty of commercial version just as fresh. Some beers you cant veen get because they fly off the shelves so fast[/quote]
I think it is pretty rare that you will get a commercial beer to be anywhere near as fresh as one you just brewed and tapped yourself, but I’ll admit that it is occasionally possible… especially if you go to the brewery and have it on draft there.
Of course, your statement of beer flying off the shelives so fast that you can’t get it leads to another way homebrew is sometimes better than commercial beer. I can get mine whenever I want to brew it… no shortages here. :cheers:
you can get plenty of commercial version just as fresh. Some beers you cant veen get because they fly off the shelves so fast[/quote]
I think it is pretty rare that you will get a commercial beer to be anywhere near as fresh as one you just brewed and tapped yourself, but I’ll admit that it is occasionally possible… especially if you go to the brewery and have it on draft there.
Of course, your statement of beer flying off the shelives so fast that you can’t get it leads to another way homebrew is sometimes better than commercial beer. I can get mine whenever I want to brew it… no shortages here. :cheers: [/quote]
A month is pretty fresh if you ask me. Not all are a month but most commercial beers I buy for freshness and have a bottle date they are within a couple weeks to 2 months or so. Pretty fresh
It depends, I don’t try to clone commercial beers very often b/c they have perfected their taste so I concentrate on perfecting beers to my taste. I have a house IPA that in my opinion is better than any commercial IPA I have ever tasted. But I spent a lot of time tweeking the recipe to satisfy what I like. I think that is what people are talking about when they say as good as commercial. Brew to what tastes best to you and in your opinion it will be as good or better than commercial.
[quote=“TheTooth”]
I think it is pretty rare that you will get a commercial beer to be anywhere near as fresh as one you just brewed and tapped yourself, but I’ll admit that it is occasionally possible… especially if you go to the brewery and have it on draft there.[/quote]
It’s pretty common with small breweries and brewpub/restaurants. There are several in Virginia that also distribute regionally. I get Dogfish Head beer really fresh by frequenting one of their restaurants in the DC area. They usually get it a week or two after packaging.
As to the original question, of course homebrewers can make beer as good or better than commercial beer. Just like you can cook food at home that is better than what you can get in a restaurant. Few homebrewers can compete with the best commercial brewers, but many are on par with your average craft brewery or local brewpub.
