what do all think of using Wyeast 1007 for Cali Common?
My plan is to use 1 package for 1.047, then save slurry for a few batches of Alt.
My basement is 60* now and will go to 58* over these next few months, seems a perfect time to have a few batches down there.
I really like to use one yeast for several batches, and don’t like to bother making starters.
(just made 7 batches of beer with 1332, that was fun!)
thanks for any thoughts.
so, no one has tried this?
ok, I’ll go ahead and experiment…
You can pretty much make something ‘near’ any style with any sort of yeast and any sort of grain and any sort of hop. Its just going to be a little different. Styles arise from a bunch of brewers in a similar geographic region using similar ingredients. You start putting New Zealand Nelson Sauvin hops in a British bitter, then, no, you will not be true to style, but who knows, it might be great.
The steam question has been discussed by me and others. Its a relatively forgiving style, and I think you should be fine with a yeast other than SF lager.
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=112931&p=990352&hilit=2206#p990352FWIW, I just made another steam with this Wy 2206 bavarian lager. Can post next week how it comes out. First one was great but very malty (this could also be because I increased the Munich by a #, or because its Jamil’s, and he’s a malty maniac, and I heard his steam is a bit over the top).
You just want to make sure the yeast you choose has a moderately high to high attenuation/floc level, and can work well at low temps. Never brewed an alt, but as the yeast you mention is used for it widely, I would think it would be comfy in the low 60’s, similar to a steam yeast (at least I think alts are supposed to be made @ lower ale temps). Anywhere above that you’re going to get a few too many esters for a clean steam thats “true to style”.
Also, I think you might be slightly underpitching with one smack pack for a 1.047 beer. Steams you should use close to lager pitching rates. I would either grow up a 1000-1500ml starter or buy two packs.
I’ll just say that I feel that the 2112 or 810 is a critical part of the Steam/Common/West Coast Lager style. If you make a beer with the grain and hop bill of a steam and use 1007, my guess is that you will make great beer but I don’t know if I would call it a steam/common beer. I have some 2112 in my yeast fridge and plan to make a couple of beers with it. One will be a straightforward steam beer with domestic pale malt, some crystal, possibly some Special B, Northern Brewer hops to about 35 IBU and 2112. The other beer(s) I make with it might be a red lager(ish) or some other type of amber lager(ish)… I say “ish” because 2112 is a hybrid yeast… but I like to think that the clean and straightforward approach [and the fact that the yeast is so unique] makes the style and without 2112/810, a beer is not a steam beer.
I would agree with Ken, in that once you go beyond a key element of a style, it is no longer a variance, but in its own category now… whatever that may fall into. That said, I just did a variance on the Steam beer grain/hops bill, this being the 6th time. I just love the base recipe, and I wanted to make it as a real malt lager this time, with a 4th generation 2352 Munich Lager II. It is currently on day 7 in primary at 52 degrees.
I find this to be one of the greatest elements of the hobby; to experiment and find what WE like, not just what is on the shelves. :cheers:
[quote=“cgbruise”]
I find this to be one of the greatest elements of the hobby; to experiment and find what WE like, not just what is on the shelves. :cheers: [/quote]
I couldn’t agree more. With all of the various ingredients we have plus all of the tools in our brewing toolbox, I feel like the options are limitless. Sometimes you have a bunch of odd ingredients in your inventory and decide to throw everything together and see what happens… often those are the best beers. I would not worry about mixing things up and I am far from a “style-Nazi”. I do happen to enjoy the character of 2112/810 when fermented around 55° so when I make a West Coast Lager, I typically use those strains. Cheers.
I agree with both of the above posts, but only add that SF Lager (WY or WL) is a derivation/descendant of bavarian lager yeast. German brewers in the gold rush days basically used this, because its what they had. If you look at the yeast characteristics, they really aren’t a lot different. Again, I do agree, but with yeasts this similar, we are talking about a few single pieces of code within the double helix that are different, and despite the fact that WL/WY MARKETS these as two different yeasts, without both of which you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT make a beer in either particular style, I think you can still get pretty darn close to a classic steam with some of the german lager yeasts.
Having said all that, looking at the profiles, the 1007 is a low flocculator. Other than that (very distinctive difference), it has similar fermentation characteristics to 2112.
I will say that using a lowish flocculating yeast in a beer style that requires a high flocculator can end up way off the marks as far as style guidelines. I did an American IPA with S-04 one time and the beer was nearly FLAWLESS, except of course for the weird slight tart character that just didn’t belong.
then again you may have just been asking if you can make beer this way, in which case, the answer is yes, so brew away and forget everything I said.
I will add that 2112 is very clean at about 55° but gets quite estery in the low 60s. 2112 is also a very high-floccing yeast and leaves behind a nice, bright beer. Of all of the European lager yeasts I have used (2142, 2206, 2124, 2308, 2278, 2000, 2001, 2633, 800, 820, 830, 840, 940, etc), I don’t recall one having the same character as 2112.
Interesting. I might try a side by side/split batch on my next steam with 2206 and 2112 (though I’m growing tired of WY as I can rarely properly smack the smack pack!).
I will say that the steam I made with 2206 was VERY malty but finished dry. Now I’m not sure if this is because its Jamil’s recipe, or because I used a yeast more suited for bocks and okfests (or both). I will give creedence to your experience though, as I’ve brewed with exactly 2 of the yeasts you just mentioned! I might start a separate thread on growing up a good pitch of lager yeast by making a hybrid or ale and what styles work well with that, as that was my reason for doing the steam in the first place (growing up an okfest yeast pitch).
To the OP, you will probably make a good beer with your plan. Possibly even a great beer. Based on the data though, I would say you probably won’t make a steam.
I feel like 2206 creates a “malty” beer. I have had other brewers say, “How can a yeast be malty?” and I agree with that question. But 2206 just seems to make a very deep-tasting, malty beer. Heavy is one descriptor someone else used. It’s very much the opposite of a pilsner strain like 800, 802, 830, 2278, etc. It seems more at home in a Munich Lager, Oktoberfest, Vienna, Marzen, Bock, Dunkel, etc. Also, 2112 (when fermented in the mid-50s) has a brighter profile than 2206 does. All those Northern Brewer hops along with the crispness of the 2112 and then the beer is very clear & bright too… yum! I gasta get on that West Coast Lager I have planned! :o
well that would definitely be consistent with my ‘research’! Thinking back on the steam I made, it was very rich with malt. Now I’ve heard others say that about Jamil’s steam in general, and I also doubled the amount of munich in the beer to 2#, but using a yeast that accentuates malt was probably overboard.
It will be interesting to see, as the steam I currently have fermenting also was innoculated with 2206, but I scaled the munich back to the prescribed recipe.
Also, to the OP, sorry for threadjacking. More yeast fun here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113986wow, thanks for all the posts, great reading.
since I am brewing tomorrow, don’t have time to make a starter with 1007.
what do you all think about using Danstar Nottingham dry yeast? I have that on hand.
it says can be used for a lager style beer, down to high 50’s.
thoughts?
after all that, my thoughts are to buy 2-3 vials of 2112 
I will have my steam carbed this weekend, but the sample I pulled last night tastes pretty spot on (made with 2206). Going to enter this one in a few comps, just to see if judges can tell. I think the insane maltiness from the last batch was due to the doubling of the munich, however I will wait to judge until its carbed.
Wow. This beer is great. Did a quick carb on it to about 2.5 volumes.
Lightly toasty, bready malt backbone, picks up the woody/earthy hops, then finishes with a carbonic, crisp bite, with some lingering earthy/spearminty hops.
Ken, I need to send you a bottle of this to see if I’m just way the he11 off. I might try it again with the SF lager yeast, but this is damn tasty as is. Let me know if you are interested.
[quote=“Pietro”]Wow. This beer is great. Did a quick carb on it to about 2.5 volumes.
Lightly toasty, bready malt backbone, picks up the woody/earthy hops, then finishes with a carbonic, crisp bite, with some lingering earthy/spearminty hops.
Ken, I need to send you a bottle of this to see if I’m just way the he11 off. I might try it again with the SF lager yeast, but this is damn tasty as is. Let me know if you are interested.[/quote]
Interested, of course!
I will use pilsner or pale malt along with Munich, German hops and 2206 and put a nice Marzen-like beer together. Not hopped as highly as a Common might be but a damn nice beer. If you can put a bottle of that together, by all means I would L-O-V-E to try it. Cheers.
Hey Newbrewermel (and everybody else)! I use 1007 all the time. This is a great strain that gives lager and ale type characteristics. It tastes best on the 2nd and 3rd pitches. It’s very eruptive when it gets going. It’s probably gonna blow off on you even at 55*F. This yeast can be fickle. Sometimes it starts slow, sometimes fast. It blows off and then chugs along. I get my beers to finish in 14 to 21 days depending on the temp. Then chill it a little and let the yeast drop out. It doesn’t Flocc very good if at all. It just looks like powder floating around in the beer. Because of that it holds a lot of hop bitterness, so don’t worry about that… it mellows after aging. After a cool down/lagering period of a couple weeks at 50, I keg it. Then it goes a couple more weeks at low temps to develop all the great flavors of the malt and hops. It takes time but the results are great. I brew a 1.054 “German” Ale or Golden Ale with it and have a nice lagerish tasting beer that you can still tell is an ale… Kinda like Alt. :blah:
I make a small 20 oz. starter and let it finish then decant.
Hope that helps you with this yeast.
