Brewing Saisons

I’m planning on focusing a little on brewing saisons over the summer. I’ve only made a few, but there’s so much variation in the style that you could probably spend several years experimenting with it. I know some of you guys really enjoy the style, so I’m wondering, what makes a really great saison to you? What are some of the best ones you’ve made, and what techniques have you used to achieve your best results?

I’m thinking of trying some variations on a classic recipe with noble hops, maybe some kettle souring, and a couple hoppy ones with non-traditional hops. It’s going to be a busy summer!

Belgian saisons, with the funky fruity flavors, aren’t to my liking. I like NBs’ petite saison for the spicy flavor. I pitch a good amount of WY 3711, to prevent stressing the yeast, and ferment under 70°F.

In my mind, a well-made saison is what God orders when he walks into a beer bar. @Flars, saison is a Belgian style, so I’m not sure what you mean by “Belgian Saisons” (?)

I do like 3711 because it is relatively easy to work with and produces a nice dry beer with subtle pepper/citrus, but there is no replacing the original, WLP 565/dupont. 566 (Saison II) is essentially a blend of 565 and a kolsch yeast I think. 565 has been hard to work with for homebrewers because it seems that not until recently did we understand that it is derived from a wine yeast that doesn’t like pressure in the fermenter headspace. See tips here.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=123311&p=1076470&hilit=dupont#p1076470

I would suggest 90-95% pilsner malt, 5-10% wheat malt to about 1.065, Saaz bittering, Saaz at flameout (or maybe Tett/Hallertauer) to about 30-40 IBU, big slug of 565 (and cover the fermenter bung hole with sanitized tinfoil, NOT an airlock per the above thread for the first 4 days). Pitch actively fermenting starter at 65, ramp to 70 after 3 days. You will have an awesome beer. Crisp, flavorful, but everything subtle. Kettle souring is a good idea, but keep in mind most of these yeasts spit out a good bit of acid and will drop final pH to make a slightly tart beer. Definitely worth an experiment.

As far as variations, I have found some of the new world hops, such as Galaxy, Zythos and Mosaic work REALLY well in these beers, especially when added at flameout/whirlpool.

I have also used Brett Trois (Sacc Trois), pitched at lager pitching rates in a really simple grain bill, with great results.

Man, now I want to make one.

I’ve been playing around with some of the yeast bay’s saison strains. Their wallonian farmhouse strain is, to put it mildly, spectacular! I haven’t tried the classic Dupont strain yet, but it’s on the agenda. Also hoping to score some WY3726 when it’s released.

Pietro, do you normally ferment saison in the 60-70F range?

The Mad Fermentationist has some awesome sounding funky saison recipes on his site - definitely want to try one of those!

Wish I had a really big bottle of Dupont right now. :cheers:

Next up after my Gose is going to be a saison. I plan to split it into 2 three gallon batches and ferment one with 3711 or belle, and the other with 100% brett (still mulling this over).

I’ve got some information I want to try regarding the grain bill, mash temps, and water profile from John Kimmich at the Alchemist who used to brew the best saison I’ve ever tasted before his brewpub got wiped out in the hurricane. I’ll dig it up, I think it’s on my other computer.

edit - computer lost my reply to this…

That’s a great idea! I picked up some ECY dirty dozen during the last release and I’ve been trying to decide how to use it. I think I’m going to use it in a hoppy American-style saison, just to see what the brett does to the hop compounds.

[quote=“JohnnyB”]Next up after my Gose is going to be a saison. I plan to split it into 2 three gallon batches and ferment one with 3711 or belle, and the other with 100% brett (still mulling this over).

I’ve got some information I want to try regarding the grain bill, mash temps, and water profile from John Kimmich at the Alchemist who used to brew the best saison I’ve ever tasted before his brewpub got wiped out in the hurricane. I’ll dig it up, I think it’s on my other computer.[/quote]

Umm…yes for the love of God please post!

I hope I don’t sound like a total fanboy (because…well, I am.), but Kimmich to me is such a good blend of artisan and technician. Would love to see how it tees up a saison.

[quote=“Pietro”][quote=“JohnnyB”]Next up after my Gose is going to be a saison. I plan to split it into 2 three gallon batches and ferment one with 3711 or belle, and the other with 100% brett (still mulling this over).

I’ve got some information I want to try regarding the grain bill, mash temps, and water profile from John Kimmich at the Alchemist who used to brew the best saison I’ve ever tasted before his brewpub got wiped out in the hurricane. I’ll dig it up, I think it’s on my other computer.[/quote]

Umm…yes for the love of God please post!

I hope I don’t sound like a total fanboy (because…well, I am.), but Kimmich to me is such a good blend of artisan and technician. Would love to see how it tees up a saison.[/quote]
+1!!!

I made a saison based off of the Saison Au Miel that NB has in the 1-gallon batch. Used a pilser malt and blackberry blossom honey at flameout and Wyeast 3711, fermented at 75ish.

Very nice, has some tartness too it, but balanced nicely with the aromatic honey.

I also have a saison bottle conditioning now that is a golden malt DME with cascade hops and some sweet dried orange, with a second passage of Wyeast 3711 off of the yeast cake from the previous one.

Tasted really great pre-carb.

both saisons with 3711 went all the way down to 1.002.

@ porkchop and pietro

Ok, I told him I wasn’t trying to do a clone but was very interested in how he got the body characteristics.

Here is what he said:

90% Pils
10% Caramalt (found this interesting)
Must hit mash pH between 5.1-5.3
Mash low, around 144 (found this interesting too. I’m going to extend mash to 90 minutes if I do this)
35-40 IBU’s mostly late addition hops
Water hardness around 200 ppm

Anyone know how to figure out the hardness of your adjusted water profile in Bru’n water?

The beer had a really nice hint of pepper but I don’t know if it came from the yeast (I suspect it did and the yeast was 3711 but that’s just speculation) or from a spice addition.

That’s interesting… I’ve heard from a different reputable source to mash at 144 with a target ph of 5.2. I’m not sure I’d add any kind of caramel malt, though… I’ve been getting less fond of the flavor caramel malt adds to a dry beer.

What do you guys think of adding some type of sugar to the boil? Important or not? I left it out of my last one, as the wallonian yeast dropped gravity <1.000.

I think I’m going to try CaraRed or Carapils and reduce it to about 7%, which will be somewhere between 12 oz and a pound. (I’m shooting for an old school lower gravity saison.)

Between the low mash temp and the attenuation of most saison yeasts it should finish plenty dry without sugar, so I don’t plan to use any on my first stab at it. (Edit: this is biased based on the saison yeasts that I’m considering. I don’t know enough about other saison yeasts, so probably shouldn’t make a blanket statement like that.)

I’m nervous about mashing at 144. Maybe I’ll go with 146 since I’ll drop about 2 degrees during the mash.

It sounds like the Wallonian is a rampaging beast. I’ve never mashed that low, but I have to believe it would still convert, and you would wind up with a very fermentable wort.

I know the cara is probably counter intuitive, but if you are making an extremely fermentable wort, maybe that residual dextrin helps enhance the yeast character and give the beer body (to me, the opposite of this would be using 100% 2-row/pils, and mashing at 154). Mashing 2-row at 144 would probably create champagne by comparison.

For my tastes, I would probably stick to Cara 10 or something really light.

I actually re-brewed the same recipe, but mashed at 155F this time because the first run-through was So. Bone. Dry. It’s going to get brett in secondary, so I don’t mind if it ends up finishing high.

Agree on the light cara - add some body, but for me it’s the flavor that would make me hesitant to use it. Maybe some cara-foam would be ok, though? I’ve got a couple pounds of golden naked oats, too, that might be interesting.

One of my good friends is moving in August and I’ve offered to make a special brew for his going away party. I asked if he had any special requests and his brother said a saison and he agreed. I started doing my research to try and find a good plan for this brew.

I’ve seen some recipes with Brett that can take months to age properly. Unfortunately I don’t have that kind of time, although I am sure it tastes wonderful. Maybe next time, I’ll try a Brett Trois saison and go with it.

If I make a “lager” sized pitch of 565 and follow the advice about using tinfoil instead of an airlock for a bit, and ferment a little on the warmer side, would I be able to have some decent beer by August?

I would say absolutely you have time before August. Why would you do a lager sized pitch? I would just do the recommended ale pitch (pitch an actively-fermenting starter), start the ferment in the mid-60’s, get it up to 70 after 3-4 days, then into the high 70’s to finish out. Should be ready in 10-14 days, plus maybe a little conditioning time if you want.

Brett Trois is actually a saccharomyces yeast, so you can use it in a primary fermentation just like any other sacch yeast. You should be good to go for August! Just build up a big starter, as White Labs vials have very low cell counts for brett, and until recently they packaged Trois as if it were a brett strain intended for secondary pitch.

Actually, any variety of brettanomyces can be used for primary fermentation in a similar timeline to sacch, and it performs and attenuates almost identically. Where a sacch yeast might take 2 weeks to ferment, brett will take maybe 3 weeks, and most of that is due to increased lag time. What takes a long time is using it in secondary, as the by-products from a sacch fermentation are slowly metabolized by the brett to create the classic funk flavors.

My fault, I got it confused with brett for a second. I just re-read your post and you said Brett Trois pitched at lager rates.

Based on the info, now I am not sure if I want to go with 565 or Brett Trois. Decisions, decisions :smiley:

I don’t want to speak for the Master of Saisons, but I’m pretty sure he meant lager rates because of the low cell count you’re starting with in the vial. An ale-size pitch with Trois should be good, as long as you account for the low number of cells with which you are starting.

Right, in American Sour beers, Tonsmiere recommends lager pitches if direct-pitching a brett strain. Since we now know that Trois is actually sacc yeast, I would think an ale pitch would be ok. I did a simple Trois saison when I thought it was a brett yeast, so I used a big pitch. Turned out a great beer.

Either one will make an awesome characterful light beer. The best decisions are the ones where greatness awaits either way you go!