Brewing my first lagers, Mr. Malty confuses me

[quote=“Dan S”]Thanks, Duxx - I thought that might have been the case.

I’m gearing up to brew a Doppelbock estimated to come in at around 1.090 and was worried that I might not get the cell growth I was looking for by using a 2L starter stepped up with another 2L, due to the ratio of wort to yeast cells. When I plug all of the info into yeastcalc (thanks, mvsawyer!), however, I see that it should be possible to eek out the 642 billion cells necessary if I pitch two smack packs and use a stir plate, provided that the yeast is fairly new. That calculator certainly does make the whole step up process much more understandable.

[Edit: Sorry – I didn’t mean to hijack this thread!][/quote]

That looks about right using the Mr. Malty hack as well. The conventional wisdom says you don’t get that much from “stepping up” a starter without increasing the volume from the first step to the second, though.

If you wanted to do that, you could just as easily do a smaller first step and a bigger second. That’s probably what I’d do based on a variety of general tips I’ve read (mostly from Jamil Z, “Mr Malty”) along with the raw numbers, but I think you’ll be good either way.

By the way…Jamil’s calcs say you need only 610 billion cells for 5G of lager at 1.090 OG, and I’ve always heard that his numbers are borderline excessive. The more the better though, until you reach really insane pitch rates.

:cheers:

@ DanS…IMO you would be better off using your yeast starter to make a 5G batch of 1.050ish lager and using that yeast cake to make your Dopplebock. Any pro-brewer will tell you 2nd or 3rd generation yeast is a better way to go for high gravity beers. Plus you wouldn’t have to worry about just barely having a high enough cell count.

OR…Plan B: I like to split my wort into 2 fermentations with different yeast. If you haven’t tried this, you will be amazed at the different beers they produce. Per your signature, you have a O’fest fermenting? If so, why not use that yeast for half of your Dopplebock wort and your planned starter for the other half of the wort? 2 beers for the price of one!

Great link! Thanks for posting…[/quote]

+1 That’s way more user friendly! Thanks for the link!

@rustyhoover: Thanks for running the numbers. I’ve heard the same thing about Mr. Malty’s estimates, but better safe than sorry in my book!

@Duxx: At this point, I haven’t yet ventured into the realm of reusing yeast. The Ocotberfest was actually brewed back in April and is now lagering, so the yeast is long gone (I did two 2L starters with 1 yeast pack and went from 1.057 to 1.018, which I suppose was a fairly good result?). I really should plan ahead the next time I make a big beer so that I can try repitching. I always feel like I’m throwing money down the drain when I dump a yeat cake.