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Black Eye Rye (Your Thoughts Please)

Black Eye Rye
Imperial black rye IPA
This is my first attempt at this style of beer.

I do not want to make a boring black IPA just for the sake of color. I’m going for a grain bill that will produce a very complex layering of malt flavors that have just a touch of roastyness.

[size=150]Please Share your thoughts[/size]

Batch Size (fermenter): 10.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.086
Estimated FG: 1.018
Mash: 151 degrees
ABV: 9.0
Estimated Color: 28.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 94.8 IBUs
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

21 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) 59.2 %
4 lbs 8.0 oz Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) 12.7 %
4 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) 11.3 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) 7.0 %
2 lbs Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) 5.6 %
12.0 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM) 2.1 %
12.0 oz Chocolate Rye Malt (250.0 SRM) 2.1 %

4.50 oz Calypso [14.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min 94.8 IBUs
4.00 oz Mosaic [12.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min (Whirlpool 20min) 0.0 IBUs
4.00 oz Mosaic [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days 0.0 IBUs

2.0 pkg Wyeast Labs #1764 Pacman

Personally I would find that beer difficult to drink. Way too hoppy for me, and I hate Mosaic hops with a passion – don’t need no litterbox in my beer, thank you very much. But… there’s no real technical problems. So whatever floats your boat. If you’ve tasted Mosaic before and loved it, you’ll probably love this beer. Looks like it fits your goal of Impy Black Rye IPA.

Just a couple minor comments:

I do think you would have a very hard time hitting an OG of 1.086 with that beer. You’ll probably get closer to 1.078 unless you crush like mad and you know your system really well. But maybe that’s good enough anyway? You decide. If not, add a couple extra pounds of base malt and call it good.

You’ll also want to throw a couple pounds of rice hulls into the mash, or the rye and flaked barley will scum everything up and you’ll have a stuck mash.

Best of luck to you. You’ll probably love this beer. But it’s not for the faint of heart, that’s for sure. Personally I wouldn’t like it at all. But, I could appreciate it for what it is, and for hitting the goal you had in mind.

Thank you Dave for taking the time to write such detailed feedback. I totally spaced the rice hulls. I use Beersmith for formula calculations and have always hit my OG exactly. I usually brew high gravity beers and do not dry them out (FG 1.018-1.022). I balance the sweeter finish with big first wart and early boil hop additions. As for the taste, I have not experienced the Cat Piss smell or taste that others have said the get from Hops like Citra, Mosaic… When I use those type of hops and share my beer with other brewers they do not have that observation either.

I’m curious what a recipe looks like that produces such a bad aroma or taste from these hops. I have heard the same thoughts as yours about these hops from other people but never about my beers. Can you link a recipe to me that you have personally tasted with these negative characteristics.

My experience with Mosaic is based on a commercial craft beer, so I do not have the recipe. However I do know it was a single hop beer so they must have used Mosaic for bittering. I have heard that with these new hops such as Mosaic and Citra, the hop character is wonderful if added at the very end of the boil, but turns out a lot more catty if used for bittering (e.g., greater than a 15-minute boil). So with your hops added at flameout and dry, perhaps you will indeed be safe. You could very well be just fine. I guess I really don’t have the experience yet to know for sure what it will do. I do wish you luck and hope you love it.

Thanks Dave!

People’s palettes just have different thresholds for compounds (including those in beer). I for instance, have a real hard time picking up diacetyl. That is the only way I can explain the cat pee thing, because I happen to think Citra and Simcoe $#@!ing rock.

Regarding your recipe:

-This sounds like a cool idea for a beer, but as Dave says, definitely going to be a sipper…unless of course, you are a full-blown boozebag :mrgreen:

-I think you can probably get away with cutting the c60 in half. Rye has such an awesome, earthy character that heavy crystal malts will just get in the way. 3.5% will provide a touch of caramel flavor, as you say, layered, with the rye.

-Re: rice hulls - absolutely. At LEAST 2 lbs. You may also consider a beta-glucan rest in the mash @ 95* or so. My last rye beer was a concrete mess of a mash. Breaking down those glucans will combat this.

-why the flaked barley? Seems unnecessary and will likely make it closer to an American Stout than a BIPA. I wouldn’t go for too much body in this beer, it will be chewy enough with the rye and crystal

-great move on the mosaics (IMO). I find the mango-y, melon-y, tropical…y hops go a lot better in BIPAs than piney/straight citrus of the “C” hops. I would consider some late columbus as well to add some earthy hop flavor to link up with the rye. Also, I would have some sort of neutral (warrior/magnum) hop @ 60 minutes…is the FWH meant to replace the 20 minute and under additions? NBD if so, but my hop forward beers usually have hops at 20, 15, 10, 5, 1 and FO.

-I am a huge advocate of Breiss’ products “Midnight Wheat” malt and “Blackprinz” for BIPAs, both of which impart a subtle subtle roasty character, with no acrid harsh flavors (think Chock Full O Nuts as opposed to Starbucks Dark Roast).

-I hope you are planning on a starter with those 2 packs of Pacman

Yet more ammunition for my despising of single-hopped beers. Great idea, have not found a case of it being executed well. Better off bittering with magnum, hopping the hell out of it late with your hop of choice. Or better yet, mix hops that blend well and forget the whole idea!

Yet more ammunition for my despising of single-hopped beers. Great idea, have not found a case of it being executed well. Better off bittering with magnum, hopping the hell out of it late with your hop of choice. Or better yet, mix hops that blend well and forget the whole idea![/quote]
Three Floyds Zombie Dust is all Citra and freaking amazing. And ridiculously hard to find, even though it’s part of their normal lineup.

That said, when I brew my Citra beer, I bitter with Magnum, but mostly so I can horde the Citra.

Pietro, you are a wise man indeed. I could not have said any of your above comments better myself and I could not agree more.

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