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Belgian dubbel

Hey guys finally decided to create an account on here after trolling for awhile. I’m planning on making a dubbel in a few weeks and had a few questions.

  1. The extract kit comes with dark candi sugar. I was thinking of buying some d190. Now should I use both or should I sub out the candi sugar for the syrup.

  2. I plan to ferment the dubbel on half my yeast cake from a 1.054 Belgian fermented with 3787. Will I be over pitching using that much of the cake?

Thanks in advance

I’d use the whole cake unless you want to save some for something else.

Did you make a starter for your 1.054 belgian? My only concern would be the stress placed on the yeast if underpitched on the first batch.

I wouldn’t be at all concerned about overpitching on a home brew level. I’ve used the entire cake of 3787 from a patersbier for a batch of belgian dark strong ale. Turned out great. I would recommend a blow off setup if you do that though. That yeast can be a monster.

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The 1.054 is actually on about 1/3 of the cake from a tripel. I know you shouldn’t go from higher to lower but just kinda experimenting with this yeast. This is my 5th batch in a row using 3787 and it is definitely a monster. I use a blow off tube whenever I use it. I’ve used the same smack for all of the batches and it seems to be fine in them all. I usually see signs of fermentation within 12 hours

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I’ve gone from higher to lower a few times with no issue. I think that’s one of those brewer’s urban myths.

It is a great yeast!

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I definitely like the flavor it brings to the beer. I’ve been using it in the low to mid 60s ambient temp. Still need to see what I can get with it at a high range. But I like what I’m getting with it now. What do you think about the sugar vs syrup? Would I be OK to use both?

Isn’t candi syrup just liquid candi sugar? If so i would just use the rock candy.

The ingredients sheet doesn’t specify but I believe it’s the crystallized kind like table sugar

Here is what candi sugar is http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/brewing-ingredients/sugars/belgian-candi-sugar there is a description at the top.

The liquid stuff appears to be the same thing. I called it rock candy because that is what it is. When I was a kid (before dirt was invented) you could get it in a candy store on a string. It looked like crystal rocks.

I think the dark stuff is caramelized. Instead of light candi sugar I just use table sugar.

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I agree with Danny don’t worry about the over pitch with a Belgian. Most every brewery over pitch on these styles of beer. A great book that talks about it is brew like a monk. Also Mark points out table sugar will work just like candy sugar and most breweries use table sugar and not the candy sugar. The dark does contribute a little caramel flavor. And some of the syrups have added fruit that will contribute a little flavor. If your feeling adventurous look up how to make candy sugars and simple syrups and you can create your own unique flavor that you can use

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Thanks for the feedback guys. I actually just got BLAM for Xmas and I’ve read a decent bit of it already. I read somewhere on one of these threads that the dark syrups contribute more of the flavor you would associate with a dubbel which is why I was thinking of picking up the d180. In 5+ years of brewing I never made very many Belgian beers but now I’m kinda obsessed with em. I’m sticking with the 3787 for now to see how it does in different beers and a different temp ranges

Kind of depends on what you’re going for. If you want your dubbel to be dry you could use both. I don’t think you’ll get more complex flavors. they’re subtle at best. You’ll just be adding simple sugars for the yeast to consume to raise ABV a little and dry the finish.

3787 is consistent and predictable. Fermented cool like you’ve been doing it’s very clean. I like it at those temps. As you ramp up the temp you’ll get more esters from it. I always got fig and caramel in my dark strong ale in the upper 60s low 70s and beginning to get banana and clove in the patersbier but those come out more in the high 70s. Got a banana clove bomb patersbier at 78. My first dark strong ale fermented around 80 and had fusels and one hell of a blow off. This is all off memory. Not sure how much I have in the way of notes on those but I brewed quite a few rounds on 3787 slurry at differing temps. I liked the cooler temps personally.

I think I’ll stick to what comes in the kit. At least for my first time brewing it. Might as well use the whole cake too since that’s the only Belgian I’ll be doing till after the dubbel is done. I have a quad fermenting now. OG was 1.090. Has anyone had any success harvesting yeast from this big of a beer? I’m probably just gonna retire it there but curious to see if anyone’s tried it.

@dannyboy58 the clove/banana is what I’m trying to stay away from. I can’t stand that flavor. Sounds like I probably wouldn’t wanna go over 70 degrees with it from what you’re saying. I like the subtlness I’ve been getting so far but wouldnt mind a bit more esters. My Belgian Ale and quad are both sitting at 66 now. A few degrees higher than what I’ve been using this yeast at so maybe I’ll pick up a little more flavor

I like to keep my temp low through with this yeast through about a third of fermentation and let it rise slowly till finished. This will help to keep your esters in check. I also like to add my sugar to secondary. Get it off the stressed yeast and allow the healthier yeast work on the sugar only.

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@damian_winter I used to secondary everything but I’ve since stopped. I only use a secondary on really big beers I want to bulk age for 2+ months. I just leave my beer in primary for 3-5 weeks and bottle. I really haven’t noticed much of a difference between secondary and no secondary.

About the only beers that I do secondary on is my Belgian beers and stuff I want to bulk age and lager I do in kegs. I only do a secondary on my Belgians because of the stress yeast that’s been working on the sugars from your wort. The healthier yeast to work on just the sugar in the secondary. Being that your using yeast cake from another brew and some dead yeast will be present in the primary I would do a secondary and add my sugar then. You will have a cleaner finished beer

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Hmm good point. I may have to try this

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