Ah, that makes a lot of sense.
That would be very interesting if their lager strain wasn’t really a lager.
So I definitely want the ‘Old Newark Ale’ strain when it becomes available again, thanks.
The ECY became available today and I managed to score the Old Newark Ale yeast before it sold out. I had also wanted to get some saison yeast but it was already gone.
Now I guess I need to finalize my Ballantine IPA recipe with the information I have.
I regularly drank Ballantine IPA when it was brewed in Newark, and the taste lingers in a part of my brain otherwise reserved for first sexual experiences or the births of my children. My two cents’ worth is that yes, one could taste the wood it was aged in, an impression that cannot be put down to an illusion created by the heavy hopping. As I recall my first taste, my reaction before reading the label was holy crap, this stuff tastes of wood, but damn good.
Like another commenter on this post, I also heard from workers at the brewery that they used oak barrels. I don’t know what to make of Falstaff’s later assertion that the barrels were waxed to prevent wooding the taste. If the Newark brewery waxed them, it did not prevent contact with the wood.
What hops did Ballantine use? The only thing I recall hearing was from one guy who worked there only a short time, that the IPA used a hop sourced from Austria. How reliable that is I don’t know.
Regarding cloning BIPA, a worthy pursuit, keep in mind that the high-alpha hops were not around in the 1950s and 60s. Nor were Cascade and many other US aroma hops popular today.
Yeah, that’s one reason it was so good. 
[quote=“danv”]What hops did Ballantine use?[/quote] I’ve seen some info and a good deal of speculation on that topic. Bullion, Brewers’ Gold and Cluster were likely suspects. Brewers’ Gold was specifically mentioned in ads and labels for the XXX Ale IIRC, not sure about the IPA. Saaz has been mentioned in some publications and recent clone recipe articles. My IPA, which I do not categorize as a clone but a derivative, uses Cluster, Brewers’ Gold and Kent Goldings.
Well Bryan, I’m giving this one a bump almost exactly one whole year later to let you know that some research confirms that you were absolutely correct about the huge 150+ barrel capacity oak storage tanks at Ballantine Newark: they were indeed pitch lined.
So …now the mystery remains as to just how the IPA picked up it’s decidedly oaky flavor note. I’m pursuing a lead, (and hopefully not too late in doing so…the passage of time is a real bitch when trying to locate people who would now be in their 80s or 90s), which may lead to an answer. But I need to know. This beer still remains without peer…as hard as it is to believe, no currently produced IPA comes close.
So, as they used to say on TV, “…film at eleven”.
I hope.
:cheers:
[quote=“The Professor”]
Well Bryan, I’m giving this one a bump almost exactly one whole year later to let you know that some research confirms that you were absolutely correct about the huge 150+ barrel capacity oak storage tanks at Ballantine Newark: they were indeed pitch lined.
So …now the mystery remains as to just how the IPA picked up it’s decidedly oaky flavor note. I’m pursuing a lead, (and hopefully not too late in doing so…the passage of time is a real bitch when trying to locate people who would now be in their 80s or 90s), which may lead to an answer. But I need to know. This beer still remains without peer…as hard as it is to believe, no currently produced IPA comes close.
So, as they used to say on TV, “…film at eleven”.
I hope.
:cheers: [/quote][/quote]
Very interesting, I’d be curious how you were able to find a source. I’m impressed with your research skills. Maybe the blend of hops and in particular the distilled hop oil did contribute to the oaky notes. I already have the ingredients ready for an altbier, my next brew, but once that’s finished I do believe it’s time for another batch of IPA. :cheers:
[quote=“BryanH”]Very interesting, I’d be curious how you were able to find a source. I’m impressed with your research skills. Maybe the blend of hops and in particular the distilled hop oil did contribute to the oaky notes. I already have the ingredients ready for an altbier, my next brew, but once that’s finished I do believe it’s time for another batch of IPA.
:cheers: [/quote]
I’m inspired now too to do another batch hot on the heels of my last one 2 weeks ago (I usually do three IPAs a year to allow for the long aging).
But you’ve got me thinking…given that the aromatic character of the brew was a result of both dry hopping and dosing the conditioned beer with aromatic hop oil, I can’t help but wonder now if maybe they also used a touch of some kind of oak distillate to add the subtle wood character at packaging, since the pitch coating on the wood vessels would theoretically have prevented such a flavor (??). I never thought to ask my main source when I spoke to him 30 some odd years ago. For the record, I’ve attempted using oak extract from my LHBS, but the flavor I remember remains elusive.
If my work ever brings me to one of the theaters in Rhode Island, I’ll bring along vintage bottles of both the IPA and the Burton and you’ll definitely hear from me to arrange a tasting.
Call me at 3AM, I’ll be there. :cheers:
I don’t home-brew but am a longtime beer fan and recall Ballantine IPA well from the mid-70’s until its sad demise mid-90’s. I enjoyed this discussion about wood character, hop varieties, etc.
Ballantine IPA was a special beer and you gents would know the websites on which taste notes from Jim Robertson’s and other circa-1980 beer books reported the taste of the beer. As usual and bearing in mind the limitations of subjective taste notes and the English language, the results seem contradictory. Some tasters referred to wood character, some didn’t. Some thought the beer very hoppy, some didn’t (e.g. Michael Weiner thought the hops mild, this in about 1978).
My own recollection is the beer did have a slightly woody taste but I think it might have been from the hop varieties. Ballantine IPA was an English-style strong bitter. I drank fine pale ales for years on trips to the U.K. and Ballantine IPA was squarely in that tradition, not in the modern American Pale Ale tradition with its citric C-hop focus. Some English hop tastes are kind of woody, Fuggles can be for example, so it’s possible that Bullion and Northern Brewer which are American-English hybrids achieved that character without the beer needing to touch wood. On the other hand, I think the fact that the wood vats at Newark and probably Cranston were lined with pitch or something else wouldn’t necessarily have prevented some wood character from getting in. Pitch cracks and flakes, and I just have to think sitting in a wood vat for a year will impart something to the beer. I doubt oak extract or chips were added.
I liked the beer even at the end and my main objection to it was a “burned caramel” note. I always suspected this came from the pasteurization, but who knows of course.
The beer was best in the 70’s and probably the ones I remember were from Cranston, I don’t think I ever had the one from Newark.
It’s nice to see the great efforts made here to come up with a similar taste profile, the beers sound very good.
I would say the closest taste I’ve had has been again certain English beers. Say, Wells IPA, Greene King IPA, Fuller’s London Pride (mix all those and add a shot of vodka!). Ballantine IPA especially the original was stronger than these, but overall the profile was similar I’d say. Also, some American craft brewers make a pale ale in the English way, and again you will get a similar profile.
I’ve always been puzzled that Pabst won’t re-release this beer or license someone to make it. Some craft brewers are using wood aging to good effect and they would be ideal to do it if licensed the original specs. By the way some of you may know that for a time, a beer called Woodstock IPA was made in the northwest as a tribute to Ballantine IPA by a brewer called Alan Kornhauser. He did a great job and I wish the beer was still produced but as far as I know, it is not unless under another name.
Finally, a different thread I know but the current Ballantine XXX seems rather distant from what I recall 30 years ago. Even 10 years ago it wasn’t bad with a good “fresh oaty” malt character and decent hopping (Cascades probably but still pretty good). Yet recently it has seemed rather tepid to me. One hopes Pabst will awaken soon to the commercial potential of reviving these fine old brands with something approaching their original character.
Gilly
[quote=“gilly”]…One hopes Pabst will awaken soon to the commercial potential of reviving these fine old brands with something approaching their original character.
Gilly[/quote]
That would be nice. If they did, I’d certainly buy it (probably over most of the stuff out there today). Both the IPA and the XXX were definitely unique in their time (especially great during the Newark years, but still full of character for at least the early part of the Narragansett years). There’s little doubt that they’d be perhaps a bit less unique today, but I think they would still stand up well against many of the new wave beers.
However, I’d be very surprised if Pabst would bother to take the time or trouble to revive the beers by restoring them to their original quality. It seems that to them, it’s just another neglected legacy label in their portfolio; the ironic thing is that it’s probably the one, single legacy brand they own which would actually make sense to try and restore.
My guess is that they just don’t care.
In the end, it really doesn’t matter…they probably wouldn’t get it right anyway.
I believe their remit is so-called price or value brands, so the model of a high quality, higher-price revival may not appeal to them. Still, a number of formerly well-known old-school brands have been revived by entrepreneurs, e.g. Narraganset, Wiedemann, and I think the time is right for Ballantine IPA. Maybe Pabst will see the wisdom. If they do it though, it has to be done with absolute fidelity to the beers at their best.
Other brands that should be revived IMO: Andeker (also a Pabst brand I think), Prior Double Dark (this is apparently brewed on draft occasionally for the local market by Matt Brewing in Utica), Michelob as it was on release in 1896, Horlacher Perfection, Harvard Pale Ale.
You word that very politely, certainly more than I would. :lol: In others words they just don’t give a s&#%.
[quote=“gilly”]Other brands that should be revived IMO: Andeker (also a Pabst brand I think)[/quote],
I remember Andeker fondly. Yes it was a Pabst product, an all-malt (no adjunct) premium American lager with European hops. It came in a very attractive, curvacious bottle and was sold against AB’s Michelob. Unfortunately in spite of its superiority Pabst just didn’t have the money and wherewithal to keep up that marketing fight.
Well it looks like the powers that be at Pabst finally took the plunge and have mounted another attempt to market an IPA under their much mistreated and mismanaged Ballantine brand. Looks like it is being brewed by Cold Spring under contract. It will be interesting to see how faithful they are is recreating this once world-class brew. Highly doubtful that they will have aged it properly (Ballantine aged theirs for a full year) but the new iteration is claiming a similar ABV and IBU to the original (75IBU/7.5ABV).
But… will it have the amazingly hypnotic hop aroma of the original (to which no brew since has even come close)?
We’ll see, apparently later this month!
Here’s an ad for the new brew, which I spotted two days ago…
[attachment=0]ballantine_ipa_2014.jpg[/attachment]
Finally,I am not a home brewer, however my father worked at the Newark brewery from right after the War til its closing. Alas he was not a brewer so i have nothing on that front, what i do have is a keen memory of one of the most distinctive flavor sets that have ever been in my mouth. Of course as a teenager such a brew took some getting used to but that still gave me 4 or so good years with the original brew. There was nothing like it at the time and now that other ipas are getting more interesting, let me describe the differences as I remember. Very hoppy, yes but none of the fruitiness like high ibu modern brews. I was taught by my father to breathe in through the nose and kind of slurp to get the most intense flavor, well, the alcohol and hops came on first, then the malty character in support. Now next is the most singular attribute of this ale, the flavor lingered on the back-sides of the tongue FOREVER, and it was ever so slightly sour, not like vinegar sour, but a bit like sour cream. You could literally keep your jaw moving for a full minute after the liquid was gone, and still taste it. As to the oak flavor it never occured to me at the time but maybe thats what made the hoppiness different from today’s brews. Oh, and the color, it was unique, we always drank from a glass, odd in those days, rather than the usual gold, it had just a hint of brown. The head was very firm and just off-white. I sadly lost touch with brew t until a store in Maine carried it in the late 80s, it was’nt the same but was still better than everything else. I have to say it was similar, only less. Looking forward to this new incarnation.
I’m back for the current discussions! Lots of info now online, see Jay Brook’s blog, or Stan Hieronymous’s (http://www.appellationbeer.com) both of which give the low down including information directly from Pabst Brewing Honcho Gregory Deuhs (whose brewing CV is absolutely A-1). Everything seems to check out in terms of doing the history faithfully or better, e.g. the beer is all-malt, as it must have been in the 1800’s if not the mid-1900’s. The one thing people don’t have a handle on is the hop taste, since a complex hop blend was decided upon, many of which are post-1972 hops. However, you can’t go necessarily by the names and the blend is intended to duplicate the old taste. I just hope it doesn’t taste of grapefruit peel, say. That was not how I remember Ballantine IPA in the 1970’s or 1980’s. It was much more an English taste, like some of Geary’s beers in New England, say. Probably the signature was of hybrid hops like Northern Brewer and Bullion which we know were used. Why Pabst didn’t go with one of the two recipes in Mitch Steele’s IPA book is hard to say, maybe a couple of the hops are not easy to find or the sources reliable. Anyway, things look good on paper especially factoring the IBU and gravity. The taste will tell and as soon as people here get some, please post detailed notes.
I’m a young kid by these standards, so have no experience with the original, but I’m pretty excited. I’m a little bummed, though, since I read they are only selling this in the Northeast. They are contract brewing it in Cold Spring, MN, but I can’t get it in the Twin Cities? C’mon, Pabst…
Don’t feel bad. It’s almost impossible to find in the Northeast as well (at least in NJ, which was formerly Ballantine ground zero!)
Apparently the Pabst distributors here are making no real effort to get it into the stores. One store owner whom I asked claimed that when he asked his Pabst distributor about getting some (after seeing some ads for it), the salesman said that there was no such product. :shock:
Are there any updates? I find myself intrigued by this, as if one was searching for the lost pleasure dome of Xanadu…
It’s pretty widely available now in it’s former home turf (Northeast USA), and from what I’ve been told by retailers and distributors, is selling rather well. It’s also seen on draft in quite a few restaurants and bars.
While they haven’t quite nailed a perfect re-creation of the original (the original recipe was nowhere to be found) they did a respectable job of reverse engineering the profile based on a bit of research and conversations with people old enough to have had the original. There’s a hint of citrus character in the hops used but thankfully, that characteristic (which to me is a fault in most IPAs made these days) is very much in the background. The bitterness level at 70 IBU and the ABV of 7.2% are within the range of the original I enjoyed 45 years ago (at various times in it’s history, both IBU and ABV were variously higher or lower). The current version is not long aged like the original (1 year) and while is nicely aromatic, the level of aroma is probably around half of what it was in the 1960s/70s.
All in all, it’s a good brew and is particularly nice on draft.
Thank you! By the way, do you have a latest and greatest home brewing recipe that comes close to the original?
