I went about [u]thoroughly[/u] examining the insides of my kegs, and I noticed that the “lip” area just inside the lid (but almost entirely out of sight) of one keg had a layer of encrusted… something… that was noticeable by touch and which scrubbed-off.
I’ve also replaced my poor-man’s picnic-tap bottle filler with the Beergun (and all associated lines, et. al.). The Beergun seems much easier to ensure it’s properly clean. Also, I totally recommend it as it’s shockingly quick and smooth!
I bottled some cream ale and some english mild a few weeks ago. I think I know which keg contained the contamination, and if I’m correct, it was not either of these two beers. I’m going to let a bottle or two of this sit for a couple months and check to see if the same vegetable off-flavor persists.
FWIW, my keg cleaning procedure from now on will always include filling the keg with PBW and inverting it so that the cleaning liquid is in contact with the lid & lid-surface for 12-24 hours.
[quote=“Silentknyght”]I went about [u]thoroughly[/u] examining the insides of my kegs, and I noticed that the “lip” area just inside the lid (but almost entirely out of sight) of one keg had a layer of encrusted… something… that was noticeable by touch and which scrubbed-off.
I’ve also replaced my poor-man’s picnic-tap bottle filler with the Beergun (and all associated lines, et. al.). The Beergun seems much easier to ensure it’s properly clean. Also, I totally recommend it as it’s shockingly quick and smooth!
I bottled some cream ale and some english mild a few weeks ago. I think I know which keg contained the contamination, and if I’m correct, it was not either of these two beers. I’m going to let a bottle or two of this sit for a couple months and check to see if the same vegetable off-flavor persists.
FWIW, my keg cleaning procedure from now on will always include filling the keg with PBW and inverting it so that the cleaning liquid is in contact with the lid & lid-surface for 12-24 hours.[/quote]
You may have found a small piece of dirty keg but that doesn’t mean that is where flavors came from that they told you had off flavors
[quote=“grainbelt”]
You may have found a small piece of dirty keg but that doesn’t mean that is where flavors came from that they told you had off flavors[/quote]
Well, that’s true. It could have come from something lingering in my old bottling apparatus, too. I suppose I’m not as interested in the single-variable, scientific identification of the issue insofar as I am interested in its resolution…
[quote=“Silentknyght”][quote=“grainbelt”]
You may have found a small piece of dirty keg but that doesn’t mean that is where flavors came from that they told you had off flavors[/quote]
Well, that’s true. It could have come from something lingering in my old bottling apparatus, too. I suppose I’m not as interested in the single-variable, scientific identification of the issue insofar as I am interested in its resolution…[/quote]
Process… You would have tons of bad batches getting worse and worse if it was dirty equipment.
[quote=“Silentknyght”][quote=“grainbelt”]
You may have found a small piece of dirty keg but that doesn’t mean that is where flavors came from that they told you had off flavors[/quote]
Well, that’s true. It could have come from something lingering in my old bottling apparatus, too. I suppose I’m not as interested in the single-variable, scientific identification of the issue insofar as I am interested in its resolution…[/quote]
Process… You would have tons of bad batches getting worse and worse if it was dirty equipment.
[quote=“grainbelt”]
Process… You would have tons of bad batches getting worse and worse if it was dirty equipment.[/quote]
Re-opened.
It seems more likely that it’s dirty equipment, but I feel like I’m still guessing; I’m still wondering what exactly it may be.
I bottled (with a brand new, never-used-before, cleaned & sanitized beer gun and tubing) and submitted a cream ale and a british mild for a competition (with some extra bottles). The beers tasted EXCELLENT in the keg, and within a week of bottling, still tasted just as good. That was about a month ago.
However, this evening, I selected one, each, of the extra bottles. The mild had a noticeable ring around the neck at liquid line, and exhibited some noticeable (but not overpowering) vegetable / cabbage off flavors and aromas. The cream ale had no noticeable ring around the neck, but the corn flavor was quite a bit more pronounced (it did use some flaked corn in the recipe) than from the keg. In the keg, the corn flavor was a subtle, just a hint…
Per John Palmer, I’m guessing it’s DMS from a bacterial infection. I’m also guessing that it originated from the equipment in the mild, and guessing (I don’t remember) that I must have bottled the mild first and transferred a bit over with the bottling of the cream ale.
I’m writing to see if anyone has any other thoughts on how to squish this issue.
I don’t know why the issue would present itself faster in the bottle than in the keg.
I was thinking the same thing – contamination can cause DMS.
The reason it might happen in the bottles is if you used any priming sugar, then you are essentially feeding the wild critters more food. In a keg, I assume the keg is kept cool in the 30s or 40s, and there is no priming sugar, so the wild bugs won’t grow, so this might explain the difference. Just a theory – I have no idea if you used priming sugar or bottled from a keg.
[quote=“dmtaylo2”]I was thinking the same thing – contamination can cause DMS.
The reason it might happen in the bottles is if you used any priming sugar, then you are essentially feeding the wild critters more food. In a keg, I assume the keg is kept cool in the 30s or 40s, and there is no priming sugar, so the wild bugs won’t grow, so this might explain the difference. Just a theory – I have no idea if you used priming sugar or bottled from a keg.[/quote]
He is bottling from a carbonated keg I beleive, though the cool temp of the kegs may be keeping contamination from growing and then when bottled it is starting to get worse?
Yeah, it could be primarily a temperature thing. If the bottles are only stored at cellar temperatures (60s or more), versus a cold keg, this could be it.
Well, as an update, I just tasted a barleywine I tried naturally carbonating in the keg. It was awful. Same rancid vegetable off-flavor. I brewed this on June 16, and it’s been in the keg since about August 1 (at room temp, for carbonation purposes). So, it appears that it’s not the serving hardware in my kegerator, but instead somewhere upstream.
I also tasted a belgian IPA I brewed only a month ago (Sep 15), and the phenolic notes from the belgian yeast make any off-flavor detection very difficult. It’s been in a keg since maybe October 6.
I’ve got a pale ale in primary still (brewed back on Oct 4), and I figure it’ll be my canary in the coal mine. Perhaps I’ll bottle half and keg half, unless anyone else has any other suggestions as a reasonable way to figure out if it’s one (or more) kegs, or something even further upstream.
One spot I overlooked early on was my ball valve on the kettle. I went six months without opening it up, then started having gushers. I opened it up and it was jam packed with brown gunk. I just figured it got hot enough to sanitize it, but I was wrong on my set up. Just a thought, you may not even have a ball valve. Good luck, and post back when you figure it out.
I think I found it. I recalled this post: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=116696&start=15
and started searching my gas lines. Nothing serious. Then I took a look at my keg/gas disconnects. Um, yeah. Bad news, bro. The following image was the gas QD that sat outside the freezer for quick use, for purging the vessel prior to filling, and for removing headspace. I used it on EVERY keg. Sometimes, I’d just leave it on there for a while (lazy) before transferring the keg from outside to the inside of the freezer.
Inside the freezer was better, but not by a lot. Three out of four gas QDs had the same kind of beer-like discoloration. Disassembling a QD showed it was more than just on the post contact surface.
I’ll post a high-res picture later, if anyone wants. Otherwise, see here:
[attachment=0]gasQD.jpg[/attachment]
