I just received my water report from Ward Labs. I’ve downloaded Brunwater but I’m confused about what it’s trying to tell me.
Alkilinity is pretty high but hardness is lower than I expected. Brunwater says not to add anything that would raise alkilinity which seems to be most of the things I’d add to increase Ca? Any simple suggestions anyone can offer to help improve my next beer, a breakfast stout? The grain bill actually brings pH down to 4.8 according to Brunwater so I need to adjust for that plus add Ca but not increase alkalinity right?
pH 8.1
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 202
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.34
Cations / Anions, me/L 3.2 / 2.9ppm
Sodium, Na 10
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 39
Magnesium, Mg 9
Total Hardness, CaCO3 135
Nitrate, NO3-N < 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 7
Chloride, Cl 9
Carbonate, CO3 6
Bicarbonate, HCO3 122
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 111
Total Phosphorus, P 0.34
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
“<” - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit
Your water is very similar to mine. Stout is a rare example of the time when you must add alkalinity since your mash pH is too low (goal is 5.2-5.6). I prefer baking soda (sodium bicarb) for that but you could also use pickling lime or calcium carbonate, both of which will add Ca as well. Lime may be tough to find/use since you use very small quantities of it. Calcium carbonate/CaCO3 must be added to an acidic solution (stirred in mash).
I vote gypsum to Ca of 100ppm plus baking soda adjusting mash to a pH of 5.4 in Bru’n water. From memory I didn’t acidify sparge liquor for dark beers. :cheers:
It appears you are looking at the recommendation for sparging water. That is what should not have additional alkalinity added. In fact, that water would require acidification to reduce that existing alkalinity to avoid extracting tannins and silicates in to the wort. Mashing water can be adjusted to whatever alkalinity that is needed to meet mash pH goals. Hopefully you have pickling lime available for adding alkalinity. Remember, chalk does not work effectively. Chalk can only increase mash pH be about 0.1 to 0.2 pH units and then it does nothing more.
Wow! 4.8 is very low. But I’ve seen that in several mashes with high percentages of crystal and roast malts. I assume that you are limited in your mash tun space and you are having to use a very thick mash. Since the water has significant alkalinity, thinning out the mash has the effect of adding more alkalinity to the mash. That is one option to help out this mash pH result.
The sulfate and chloride in that water is quite low and you may want either of those ion concentrations to be higher in your beer. However, you typically would have to add those with calcium. Since that would further depress the RA of the mash, one option would be to NOT add those minerals to the mash and add them directly to the kettle to provide the concentrations you want in the beer.
Another option for adding alkalinity is to use baking soda. There is only 10 ppm sodium and there is room to add more sodium via baking soda. 40 ppm sodium is relatively safe, so adding 30 ppm sodium via baking soda will increase the alkalinity by about 40 ppm. That would help if lime is unavailable. Lime is still a preferred alternative.
Great info Martin. Forgot about the limited reaction of the chalk, I hardly brew dark beers these days.
If you don’t mind me asking, would you advocate anything to sparge liquor?
[quote=“mabrungard”]It appears you are looking at the recommendation for sparging water. That is what should not have additional alkalinity added. In fact, that water would require acidification to reduce that existing alkalinity to avoid extracting tannins and silicates in to the wort. Mashing water can be adjusted to whatever alkalinity that is needed to meet mash pH goals. Hopefully you have pickling lime available for adding alkalinity. Remember, chalk does not work effectively. Chalk can only increase mash pH be about 0.1 to 0.2 pH units and then it does nothing more.
Wow! 4.8 is very low. But I’ve seen that in several mashes with high percentages of crystal and roast malts. I assume that you are limited in your mash tun space and you are having to use a very thick mash. Since the water has significant alkalinity, thinning out the mash has the effect of adding more alkalinity to the mash. That is one option to help out this mash pH result.
The sulfate and chloride in that water is quite low and you may want either of those ion concentrations to be higher in your beer. However, you typically would have to add those with calcium. Since that would further depress the RA of the mash, one option would be to NOT add those minerals to the mash and add them directly to the kettle to provide the concentrations you want in the beer.
Another option for adding alkalinity is to use baking soda. There is only 10 ppm sodium and there is room to add more sodium via baking soda. 40 ppm sodium is relatively safe, so adding 30 ppm sodium via baking soda will increase the alkalinity by about 40 ppm. That would help if lime is unavailable. Lime is still a preferred alternative.[/quote]
Actually my Alkalinity is already rather high isn’t it? 111?
Brunwater says DO NOT add baking soda, chalk or pickling lime because they contribute to alkalinity. Maybe I’m just totally confused by brunwater…
[quote=“dannyboy58”]
Actually my Alkalinity is already rather high isn’t it? 111?
Brunwater says DO NOT add baking soda, chalk or pickling lime because they contribute to alkalinity. Maybe I’m just totally confused by brunwater…[/quote]
That is a modestly high alkalinity. It definitely needs to be neutralized in your sparging water and probably for many other brew’s mash water.
Maybe there is some bad info in Bru’n Water somewhere. In the cells in the sparging water adjustment additions column on the Water Adjustment sheet, the little pop up comments say that you do not add alkalinity containing minerals to the sparge water. Those are the cells that say “Not Recommended”. However, the corresponding cells in the Mash Water additions column can and do report additions for alkalinity containing minerals. Where have I mislead you? We will get that corrected.
[quote=“mabrungard”][quote=“dannyboy58”]
Actually my Alkalinity is already rather high isn’t it? 111?
Brunwater says DO NOT add baking soda, chalk or pickling lime because they contribute to alkalinity. Maybe I’m just totally confused by brunwater…[/quote]
That is a modestly high alkalinity. It definitely needs to be neutralized in your sparging water and probably for many other brew’s mash water.
Maybe there is some bad info in Bru’n Water somewhere. In the cells in the sparging water adjustment additions column on the Water Adjustment sheet, the little pop up comments say that you do not add alkalinity containing minerals to the sparge water. Those are the cells that say “Not Recommended”. However, the corresponding cells in the Mash Water additions column can and do report additions for alkalinity containing minerals. Where have I mislead you? We will get that corrected.[/quote]
Martin, I don’t think you’ve mislead me. This is my first time trying to use Brunwater and adjust my water so I think it’s more to do with my lack of understanding. I just need to read through it a couple more times before it all sinks in. I appreciate your input!
[quote=“mabrungard”][quote=“dannyboy58”]
Actually my Alkalinity is already rather high isn’t it? 111?
Brunwater says DO NOT add baking soda, chalk or pickling lime because they contribute to alkalinity. Maybe I’m just totally confused by brunwater…[/quote]
That is a modestly high alkalinity. It definitely needs to be neutralized in your sparging water and probably for many other brew’s mash water.
Maybe there is some bad info in Bru’n Water somewhere. In the cells in the sparging water adjustment additions column on the Water Adjustment sheet, the little pop up comments say that you do not add alkalinity containing minerals to the sparge water. Those are the cells that say “Not Recommended”. However, the corresponding cells in the Mash Water additions column can and do report additions for alkalinity containing minerals. Where have I mislead you? We will get that corrected.[/quote]
My AHA! moment. The Adjustment Summary page. Somehow I missed that before. It’s starting to come together now.
So Brunwater says I need chalk in the mash water. Then gypsum, CaCl2 and Lactic Acid in the sparge water. There’s just a lot there to try and get my head around but that page helps net it out. I think…
