How about removing the sugar and using more 2 row to boost your efficiency? Sugar adds no body at all so it will have a drying affect. Also, you can also add a higher caramel malt as that too will add sweetness to balance the hops.
…sorry just read that you didn’t put sugar in all your brews. but you could still add a higher caramel to boost sweetness.
[quote=“pb905”][quote]
dry hopping is just dropping the hops right into the primary fermenter and letting it sit for 7 days then cold crashing to around 35 for a couple days to let it all drop.[/quote]
Whenever I dry hopped in primary without first cold crashing for at least a few days, I’ve found the beers to all exhibit a similar aroma regardless of hops used. It’s kind of a generic light, floral, rose like aroma. Based on some comments on the board, I started experimenting with crashing prior to dryhopping or transferring to secondary to remove as much yeast as possible prior to dryhopping and noticed a marked improvement in hop aroma. Much less muddled and generic, with much better citrus and dank aromas in particular.[/quote]
Yeah sorry forgot to mention, I usually cold crash before dry hopping if I don’t transfer to secondary first. With US-05/WLP001 it’s pretty much required to get the krausen to drop completely (or wait 3-4 weeks)
[quote=“mppatriots”]How about removing the sugar and using more 2 row to boost your efficiency? Sugar adds no body at all so it will have a drying affect. Also, you can also add a higher caramel malt as that too will add sweetness to balance the hops.
…sorry just read that you didn’t put sugar in all your brews. but you could still add a higher caramel to boost sweetness.[/quote]
Yeah I thought about this, but everyone is always “more than 1lb of caramel and it will be cloying”. My IPA’s always seem dryer than any commercial example.
I think I will try to balance the water profile a bit and see if that helps and then decide if I want to boost the sweetness with more caramel malt.
[quote=“mattnaik”][quote=“mppatriots”]How about removing the sugar and using more 2 row to boost your efficiency? Sugar adds no body at all so it will have a drying affect. Also, you can also add a higher caramel malt as that too will add sweetness to balance the hops.
…sorry just read that you didn’t put sugar in all your brews. but you could still add a higher caramel to boost sweetness.[/quote]
Yeah I thought about this, but everyone is always “more than 1lb of caramel and it will be cloying”. My IPA’s always seem dryer than any commercial example.
I think I will try to balance the water profile a bit and see if that helps and then decide if I want to boost the sweetness with more caramel malt.[/quote]
Matt I’m wondering if your pH has something to do with this issue. The few batches I mashed at lower pH to get a lower ‘in the glass’ pH exhibited some of the qualities you mention. Maybe your starting water pH is lower than you think? My Ward Lab report from Jan 2013 stated 8.1 pH. When I started using a meter this year I found it was closer to 7 due to seasonal fluctuations I suppose.
My go to grain bill for all the IPAs I ran the pH tests on was 10 lbs 2 row, 1 lb c40. They definitely were not over sweet. Recently I’ve added munich to the grain bill and lowered the amount of c40 to give it more body and malt backbone, similar to your IPA #3.
I never cold crash before DHing in primary. Something to consider…
[quote=“dannyboy58”][quote=“mattnaik”][quote=“mppatriots”]How about removing the sugar and using more 2 row to boost your efficiency? Sugar adds no body at all so it will have a drying affect. Also, you can also add a higher caramel malt as that too will add sweetness to balance the hops.
…sorry just read that you didn’t put sugar in all your brews. but you could still add a higher caramel to boost sweetness.[/quote]
Yeah I thought about this, but everyone is always “more than 1lb of caramel and it will be cloying”. My IPA’s always seem dryer than any commercial example.
I think I will try to balance the water profile a bit and see if that helps and then decide if I want to boost the sweetness with more caramel malt.[/quote]
Matt I’m wondering if your pH has something to do with this issue. The few batches I mashed at lower pH to get a lower ‘in the glass’ pH exhibited some of the qualities you mention. Maybe your starting water pH is lower than you think? My Ward Lab report from Jan 2013 stated 8.1 pH. When I started using a meter this year I found it was closer to 7 due to seasonal fluctuations I suppose.
My go to grain bill for all the IPAs I ran the pH tests on was 10 lbs 2 row, 1 lb c40. They definitely were not over sweet. Recently I’ve added munich to the grain bill and lowered the amount of c40 to give it more body and malt backbone, similar to your IPA #3.
I never cold crash before DHing in primary. Something to consider…[/quote]
I’m quite tempted to buy a pH meter just so I can start checking my finished pH and also to verify my mash pH is where brunwater says it should be. I’d just hate to spend the money on one to find that everything is exactly where its supposed to be. Like a refractometer it just feels like a tool that will find itself at the back of a drawer somewhere.
Yea I hear ya. I’m really happy I got mine. I was over acidifying for who knows how long due to the above mentioned change in my well water pH. I use it every brew session. I check the water pH when I fill the kettle, plug that into Brunwater for my adjustments, then use it to check the mash and usually the kettle as well. I could never get pH strips to work.
I got this one http://milwaukeeinstruments.com/pH55.html off amzon.com for about 50 bucks. I check it every brew day for calibration and have yet to recalibrate because it’s always spot on.
edit: Can’t say I’ve been tempted by a refractometer. Hydrometer works fine for me.
Take the variables of PH & water chemistry out of the equation. Mine noticeably improved when I used the paid version of Bru’n water, got a mw-101 PH meter and began to build my own water from distilled.
First off, commercial brewers strive very hard to brew beers that taste the same. So in itself, consider what your achieving a good thing. Also, the recipes and ingredients are not really radically different so I would not expect night and day differences.
Some responses to other posts on the thread. On another forum a member confirmed that Kimmich was quoting pH at mash temps, so at room temp that is 5.4. Also of interest was the EXTREME use of hardness via gypsum in HT. Sulfate is 600ppm. This was verified by data from Alchemist and a test run by Ward Labs (someone actually sent in HT). Recently got my hands on some really fresh HT and for those of you who have not had it you might be surprised when you do. It is NOT a hop bomb. It is quite delicate for an IPA, and smooth. What makes HT is it’s hidden potency and deliciously well crafted hop blend that is distinctly more tropical than other IPAs. Seriously, think palm trees on a beach…
My house IPA is 10% low crystal and still basically dry. That is 1.5 lbs. I am aiming for a middle of the road of east and west coast IPAs. To me, the use of crystal is yeast dependent. Chico eats it up and so does WLP007. Other yeasts can’t and leave beer sweeter. Sugar should only be in big beers. My house IPA is 1.072. I would say leave the sugar out unless you are going over that.
I think a homebrewer trying to achieve the quality of a good micro needs a meter. That said, meters are finicky and only last a year or 2 BUT you can learn a ton with them and they WILL improve your brewing. If and when you are committed to brewing strong for a while, get a meter and use the snot out of it. Test your beer, commercial beers, and everything in your process. My last meter was dedicated to running BNW in it’s paces and I am happy to say it worked quite well. So well, that I am san meter. That said, that was my 3rd meter and I did a ton of brewing and testing dialing my process in. Homebrewers are fortunate as heck to have BNW and the like. I spent the better part of 10 years learning by trial and error. Google for pH meters and AJ DeLange when and if you are ready.
With uyou on the hate of Lactic acid. Seems everyone is using it in stouts but to me it is offputting in beer.
I too can detect it immediatly.
Barry
IMO a good pH meter is a necessity for consistently good results. If you want one that will last for more than a year or two, try this one:
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/hanna ... -98127.htmIt’s a little spendy, but very accurate and waterproof unlike many, plus it’s temperature compensating. Being as I’m a geologist, I have one at home and one at work, so I can justify owning them easier than many, but I still recommend it highly.
I don’t cold crash and I dry hop in the secondary.
[quote=“65SS427”]IMO a good pH meter is a necessity for consistently good results. If you want one that will last for more than a year or two, try this one:
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/hanna ... -98127.htmIt’s a little spendy, but very accurate and waterproof unlike many, plus it’s temperature compensating. Being as I’m a geologist, I have one at home and one at work, so I can justify owning them easier than many, but I still recommend it highly.[/quote]
I noticed the calibration solutions were $25 for 25. How often do you need to do a 2 point calibration with the 4.01 pH solution? Is the solution reusable? Can I use distilled as the 7.01 pH medium for calibration purposes? I can see that getting a bit pricey if I have to do that often.
I check mine every brew day. I get bottles of the solution on amazon. I think it’s about $15 for a set of 8oz bottles of the 4.0 and 7.0. I check it every brew day to assure calibration has held. I have not had to recalibrate mine in about 6 months of use. I toss the solution after use. I’ve thought about saving it. Not sure why you couldn’t save and reuse…
Now the fun begins! I provide the following not discourage anyone but in the interest of full disclosure.
Ideally, you will need not only calibration solutions, but cleaning and storage solutions as well. Nope, can’t use distilled water for 7 buffer… You should calibrate before each use (brewing session). The pre-made buffers/solutions have a limited shelf life (90 days). You want the dry buffers because they have an indefinite shelf life. Mix em with distilled water. I used some plastic canning cups to store it in.
http://www.sciencecompany.com/pH-Buffer ... 16344.aspx http://www.cannonwater.net/ph_buffer_variety_pack.aspxHave not seen the cleaning or storage solutions in dry form. In my experience, the cleaning and storage solutions are not completely necessary, but lengthen electrode life and reduce errors in readings.
Obviously, you want to ensure to take readings at room temp. I use a large mug to cool mash/wort samples before taking a reading. Rinse with tap water between each sample. Always keep the electrode wet. If you forgo the storage solution, use tap water and not distilled. Last meter I used had a little screw on cap to keep electrode submerged. In the end, I think the care and maintenance of the meter is more important than the actual meter itself. Lastly, using a meter will not be as simple as you suspect. It takes some time for a reading to stabilize (minutes) and there will be times the reading makes no sense and you are forced to recalibrate. Then there is mash stratification and all sorts of other quirks that makes a guy like me with OCD nuts…
Might want to grab some extra batteries for it too.
See that sounds like more of a chore than its worth. The whole not knowing if my pH is right on or way off kinda drives me insane though 
+1
It’s honestly not as bad as it sounds. I would say zwiller did meet his goal of full disclosure though.
If you used distilled and built it up every time per brunwater I’d say don’t get one.
I have well water and have found the pH and salts change seasonally so I feel it’s a necessity.
+1
It’s honestly not as bad as it sounds. I would say zwiller did meet his goal of full disclosure though.
If you used distilled and built it up every time per brunwater I’d say don’t get one.
I have well water and have found the pH and salts change seasonally so I feel it’s a necessity.[/quote]
Lately I’ve been diluting 50/50. I have cleveland municipal water so not sure how often it changes.
We’re both getting water from the lake, so in my experience, it does not change much. You using distilled to dilute right? Not all RO water is the same.
From looking at your technique I would say your pH can’t be far off it is off at all. 90% of the time pH is suspect, it’s when someone is not acidifying sparge and you are.
Getting back to your OP, I doubt that pH is the reason your IPAs taste the same.
[quote=“zwiller”]We’re both getting water from the lake, so in my experience, it does not change much. You using distilled to dilute right? Not all RO water is the same.
From looking at your technique I would say your pH can’t be far off it is off at all. 90% of the time pH is suspect, it’s when someone is not acidifying sparge and you are.
Getting back to your OP, I doubt that pH is the reason your IPAs taste the same.[/quote]
Yes distilled to dilute. Your post pretty much talked me out of buying a pH meter. At least for now. :cheers:
+1
It’s honestly not as bad as it sounds. I would say zwiller did meet his goal of full disclosure though.
If you used distilled and built it up every time per brunwater I’d say don’t get one.
I have well water and have found the pH and salts change seasonally so I feel it’s a necessity.[/quote]
No, it is as bad as it sounds. I have a pH meter and haven’t used it in a few years. The thing used to drive me crazy, mostly because it NEVER stabilized. Yes, I bought a cheap one and I didn’t maintain it like I should have, but it was painful to use from the very first day I had it.
Lab grade meters are better, but still painful to use and maintain. Of course, they cost hundred of dollars, plus the electrode needs to be replaced every 6 months to a year, which can cost half as much as the meter itself.
I actually find pH paper to be just as accurate as the cheapo meter I had, and much less frustrating to use.
But I also don’t think the pH of your mash it what is making all the beers taste similar. It is more likely the similar recipes.
