This is the way to go if you want to switch to AG, but there are some additional costs that don’t often get looked at. The most obvious one is you need to have a larger kettle. And a kettle that can handle full-volume boils for 5 gallon batches won’t sit right on most stoves, so you’ll need a burner. And five gallons of hot wort takes forever to cool down if you don’t have a chiller (sitting the kettle in a sink full of cold water won’t cut it). Of course, you can save a lot of money by buying grain in bulk instead of buying extract, but to get the most out of that you really should have your own grain mill.
But the actual equipment you need to perform a mash can be very cheap.
This is the way to go if you want to switch to AG, but there are some additional costs that don’t often get looked at. The most obvious one is you need to have a larger kettle. And a kettle that can handle full-volume boils for 5 gallon batches won’t sit right on most stoves, so you’ll need a burner. And five gallons of hot wort takes forever to cool down if you don’t have a chiller (sitting the kettle in a sink full of cold water won’t cut it). Of course, you can save a lot of money by buying grain in bulk instead of buying extract, but to get the most out of that you really should have your own grain mill.
But the actual equipment you need to perform a mash can be very cheap.[/quote]
FWIW, when I started using that setup I did partial boils and topped up because I didn’t have a really large kettle. Other than the hit to efficiency, it worked fine.
Seriously though. You can move from extract to all grain for well under $100.[/quote]
Sure, make a 5 gallon batch of stout in that bag. Have fun with that. [/quote]
I’m not sure what this means? You ever hear of BIAB (Brew In A Bag)? I brew all kinds of beer. All 5 gallons (or more). All all grain. All full volume boils. I have an 11.4% Belgian Strong Ale aging, a Barleywine in primary, and will be making a Russian Imperial Stout on big brew day this year.[/quote]
If you can do all that with the BIAB method and get decent mash efficiency, more power to you. I tried that method 2 or 3 times. I got horrible (like around 50% ) mash efficiency every time, and getting a clear wort was quite challenging, to say the least. And that’s not to mention the fact that the bag gets worn out and needs to be replaced about every other brew because it lets so much grain material through it’s not even funny. Do you use any kind of special bag, or just a nylon one?
I think one of the big mistakes I made when I went all grain was thinking that I needed to make 5 gallon batches. I could have easily made 3 gallon batches on my kitchen stove with the equipment that I already had for extract and a $25-30 investment in a mash tun. Instead, I bought an 8 gallon kettle and a gas burner that I never use, now that I’ve gone to 3 gallon batches just because that volume makes more sense for me.
Sure, make a 5 gallon batch of stout in that bag. Have fun with that. [/quote]
I’m not sure what this means? You ever hear of BIAB (Brew In A Bag)? I brew all kinds of beer. All 5 gallons (or more). All all grain. All full volume boils. I have an 11.4% Belgian Strong Ale aging, a Barleywine in primary, and will be making a Russian Imperial Stout on big brew day this year.[/quote]
If you can do all that with the BIAB method and get decent mash efficiency, more power to you. I tried that method 2 or 3 times. I got horrible (like around 50% ) mash efficiency every time, and getting a clear wort was quite challenging, to say the least. And that’s not to mention the fact that the bag gets worn out and needs to be replaced about every other brew because it lets so much grain material through it’s not even funny. Do you use any kind of special bag, or just a nylon one?[/quote]
I’ve made 25 batches in my bag. Got a small hole when I jammed the thermometer through it during #10. I sewed it up and it’s been fine.
I’ve also made an 11% Dark Strong Ale, I get mid-high eighties efficiency numbers regularly, and wort clarity and more importantly finished beer clarity is not an issue.
Granted I don’t do a full volume BIAB mash. I mash with more traditional water to grain ratios and sparge by pouring water over the bag after I lift it to get my preboil volume.
I have a cooler MT but I enjoy BIAB. It works for me.
Not necessarily. If a lot of sugar is trapped in the grains but you are still getting all the water into the kettle, you can get a very low efficiency. People who do “no sparge” often end up with <60%, and I could easily see that getting worse depending on how you handle the grains in a sparge-type situation. For example, if the grain is packed too tightly into the bag or you are using a lower volume of liquid for the mash, you could end up with a LOT of sugar being thrown out with the spent grain.
[quote=“deliusism1”]
If you can do all that with the BIAB method and get decent mash efficiency, more power to you. I tried that method 2 or 3 times. I got horrible (like around 50% ) mash efficiency every time, and getting a clear wort was quite challenging, to say the least. And that’s not to mention the fact that the bag gets worn out and needs to be replaced about every other brew because it lets so much grain material through it’s not even funny. Do you use any kind of special bag, or just a nylon one?[/quote]
Standard coarse grain sack. I’m going to upgrade to a finer bag soon, but I currently use a 24"x24" course mesh bag. Yes, occasionally you get a small hole here and there and I have to buy a new one, which is why I want to upgrade to a finer, stronger bag, but other than that I have no issues with efficiency. For average grain bills (10-12 lbs) I get around 80-85% efficiency. As the grain bill goes up, efficiency does drop some, but no more than what a traditional masher would lose. And yes, you do get more trub, but I really don’t worry about it. I only care about the end product and don’t worry too much about what the wort looks like. Trub settles out. I just kegged a German Pils this past weekend. The gravity check sample straight from the primary was crystal clear.
BIAB having lower efficiencies or “having to add some extra base malt” as I’ve read a few times is a fallacy. I actually get much higher efficiency than a lot of other members of my brew club who do more traditional mashes on their tiered or cooler systems. With BIAB there are no stuck mashes/sparges so you can crush finer. I also mash a little thinner (1.5 to 2.0 qt/lb depending on the recipe) which also helps with efficiency. And I do a dunk/sparge in a second pot. It works well for me. No complaints.
[quote=“Valentines12”]
Sure, make a 5 gallon batch of stout in that bag. Have fun with that. [/quote]
I’m still curious what this means? What does a stout have to do with anything? Not trying to pick an argument. Just very curious what this post was meant to mean.
Not necessarily. If a lot of sugar is trapped in the grains but you are still getting all the water into the kettle, you can get a very low efficiency. People who do “no sparge” often end up with <60%, and I could easily see that getting worse depending on how you handle the grains in a sparge-type situation. For example, if the grain is packed too tightly into the bag or you are using a lower volume of liquid for the mash, you could end up with a LOT of sugar being thrown out with the spent grain.[/quote]
The sugar is dissolved in the wort. The percentage you get out should be proportionate to the amount of liquid you get out and your starch conversion, after accounting for the volume increase caused by the sugar dissolved in the wort. 50% is just way too low, mathematically, to be explained by loss of liquid alone, unless something went wrong and the grain didn’t drain completely or it is a high gravity beer.
Not necessarily. If a lot of sugar is trapped in the grains but you are still getting all the water into the kettle, you can get a very low efficiency. People who do “no sparge” often end up with <60%, and I could easily see that getting worse depending on how you handle the grains in a sparge-type situation. For example, if the grain is packed too tightly into the bag or you are using a lower volume of liquid for the mash, you could end up with a LOT of sugar being thrown out with the spent grain.[/quote]
The sugar is dissolved in the wort. The percentage you get out should be proportionate to the amount of liquid you get out and your starch conversion, after accounting for the volume increase caused by the sugar dissolved in the wort. 50% is just way too low, mathematically, to be explained by loss of liquid alone, unless something went wrong and the grain didn’t drain completely or it is a high gravity beer.[/quote]
The sugar doesn’t dissolve EVENLY into the wort unless there is good circulation of the liquid through the grain. With poor flow through the grain (which can happen if the grain is packed too tightly in the bag for BIAG, or for fly spargers if channeling develops in the grain bed), you end up with gradients of sugar concentration that prevents good recovery when you drain.
Channeling while fly sparging is a separate problem, and I can’t really say I know what grain would be like if it was packed too tight. Too tight for water to get to it? That would certainly lead to starch conversion problems. Would you expect grain in a bag to be packed tighter than grain sitting in the bottom of a tun? I suppose if you were twisting the top of the bag tight, but I thought BIAB was just in a bag lining a kettle.
If the sugar wasn’t distributed evenly, I’d expect that the water left in the grain after first runnings would have a higher concentration than the runoff. That doesn’t seem to be the case, since you can measure the wort surrounding the grain to determine percent starch conversion conversion.
Also, if you get full conversion, then drain the wort for a no-sparge beer, the amount of sugar in the runoff plus the amount of sugar left in wort in the grain appears to be proportional to the volumes you expect in those locations.
I’m hooked on BIAB. I got about 75% efficiency on my first brew. Like Dobe12 said you can get into it for about 8 bucks. 90 minutes in the mash tun at 152º with 10 minute mashout at 168º also a 90 minute boil seems to be the preferred way, although many still do 60. Some double crush grains some don’t.
) mash efficiency every time, and getting a clear wort was quite challenging, to say the least. And that’s not to mention the fact that the bag gets worn out and needs to be replaced about every other brew because it lets so much grain material through it’s not even funny. Do you use any kind of special bag, or just a nylon one?