In the latest issue of Zmurgy, there is an article about the most common flaws found in beer entered into competitions. Harshness/Astringency is one of the flaws covered. I have noticed that harshness in my darker beers(stout,porter) and in my hoppy beers(ipa’s). The article sugguests adding darker malts later in the mash and adding higher acid hops later in the boil. Has anyone had success with these methods of brewing to resolve an astringency issue?
I like to add dark malts at the end of the mash sometimes. But astringency is mostly a pH issue. In dark beers, having the pH in the higher range (5.4-5.6) I think gives a smoother roast flavor. Also, residual alkalinity of the water plays a big role in that. High residual alkalinity is desired for dark beers and lower RA for lighter beers. It really is quite complicated, more than just adding stuff later in the process. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
If you add high alpha (presumably bittering) hops late in the boil you won’t get the same amount of bitterness unless you add a lot more of them. Adding a lot more of them will increase the possibility of adding even more tannins and more harshness. Not to mention that the quality of the bitterness won’t be the same. it’s a vicious circle. I agree that controlling and adjusting pH is the real key. I also think that astringency is less of a problem than some people think it is and that other qualities of the beer are often mistaken for astringency.
[quote=“parkinlot”]The article sugguests adding darker malts later in the mash and adding higher acid hops later in the boil.[/quote]The first method works for me. But you can manage hop “harshness” by choosing the correct hop and hopping rate for the specific recipe.
Thanks for the feedback. Need to make some changes with building my RO water and try to get my pH right.
may be worthy of a separate thread, but I am starting to wonder about my pH and water chemistry.
Up until a few brews ago, I would 5.2 Stabilizer, but then I read that it doesn’t really work. Further, while I suppose I could have had bad pH strips, I had a mash measure at 3.6 pH!
To adjust pH once you have doughed in (because people always say water pH doesn’t matter, mash does), do you add gypsum or CaCl to the mash?
Its just one of those things I’ve never messed with. Jamil stands by the fact that water treatment (mineral adjustments) doesn’t really have a huge impact on homebrew-scaled beer, but pH certainly can.
Are pH strips (after dough in?) and gypsum/CaCl the most basic and effective ways of testing/adjusting?
One last question, do either of them go bad? I wouldn’t think so, but just checking.
[quote=“Pietro”]may be worthy of a separate thread, but I am starting to wonder about my pH and water chemistry.
Up until a few brews ago, I would 5.2 Stabilizer, but then I read that it doesn’t really work. Further, while I suppose I could have had bad pH strips, I had a mash measure at 3.6 pH!
To adjust pH once you have doughed in (because people always say water pH doesn’t matter, mash does), do you add gypsum or CaCl to the mash?
Its just one of those things I’ve never messed with. Jamil stands by the fact that water treatment (mineral adjustments) doesn’t really have a huge impact on homebrew-scaled beer, but pH certainly can.
Are pH strips (after dough in?) and gypsum/CaCl the most basic and effective ways of testing/adjusting?
One last question, do either of them go bad? I wouldn’t think so, but just checking.[/quote]
3.6 does seem crazy low, something must’ve been wrong there. Also, I don’t think it’s true that pH doesn’t matter on the homebrew scale. Of course it does, but maybe not to the degree that it matters on the larger scales.
I get my water where it needs to be based on the grain bill using Bru’n water, then don’t worry about it. But it depends on how far you want to go with it. That’s the beauty of this hobby, you can go as far as you want or stick with simplicity.
[quote=“Pietro”]To adjust pH once you have doughed in (because people always say water pH doesn’t matter, mash does), do you add gypsum or CaCl to the mash?[/quote]You could do it that way, but you’ll likely get into a loop of adding and testing and adjusting that would drive me crazy. Easiest way is to run the recipe through a calculator and determine the proper amounts of salt/acid - I use bru’nwater and with a little practice now hit 5.3-5.4 on the nose every mash.[quote=“Pietro”]Jamil stands by the fact that water treatment (mineral adjustments) doesn’t really have a huge impact on homebrew-scaled beer, but pH certainly can.[/quote]I think you might be misinterpreting something Jamil said or it was incorrectly relayed to you, but if he did say that he’s not stating a fact, it’s his opinion and it’s incorrect. Just add a teaspoon of gypsum to your next APA and you’ll see that salts make a huge difference in the beer.[quote=“Pietro”]Are pH strips (after dough in?) and gypsum/CaCl the most basic and effective ways of testing/adjusting?[/quote]You need a couple of tools in the pH arsenal - gypsum, chloride, phosphoric and/or lactic acid, and pickling lime. The first three lower the pH and the last raises it. Which you use depends on your water and the grist. For measuring pH, a meter is a good investment. None of these go bad, although the meter requires calibration.
I usually add a teaspoon of calcium chloride & a teaspoon of gypsum to my APA’s with 5 gallons of RO water. Seems to come out fine…my IPA’s and Stouts are what I need to get right…I also use 3 1/2 gallons of Primo Bottled water for the rest of my water total now. I was using filtered tap water that was run through a softener system for my remaining 3 1/2 gallons. That could very well have been my problem with the harshness in some of my beers.
