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A Lighter Shade of Pine

Newer Brewer here with about 10 AG batches under my belt. I am feeling comfortable enough to start experimenting a bit but not without some advice/input from the experts. (that’s you)

I want a slight to low-moderate piney aroma/flavor and a strong citrus/fruity character throughout. Let’s say 75/25 in favor of the citrus would be my general target. Part of me wants to add a small amout, say .25oz, of Simcoe to dryhop but I’m afraid this would push the pine aroma to far past my target. What I am not entirely sure of is what the .25oz Simcoe addition to the steep is going to add to overall flavor/aroma.

In the bitterness department I obviously want it there but I don’t want it to linger; I do not have any 60 min adds in hopes that accomplishes this. I may be completely wrong here so your opinion/advice would help a lot.

I am open to any tweaks on this combo of hops or experience you’ve had using them.

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.04 gal
Boil Time: 60 min

Est Original Gravity: 1.072 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.8 %
Bitterness: 114.2 IBUs
Est Color: 10.6 SRM

11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) (3.5 SRM) 73.3 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) 6.7 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) 6.7 %
1 lbs Victory Malt (biscuit) (Briess) (28.0 SRM) 6.7 %
1 lbs Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 SRM) 6.7 %

1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - First Wort 90.0 min 37.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - First Wort 90.0 min 15.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - First Wort 90.0 min 20.4 IBUs

1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min 15.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min 6.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min 4.3 IBUs

(For Steeping I’m chilling wort to 180F before adding hops)
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15.0 min 8.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15.0 min 3.3 IBUs
0.25 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15.0 min 2.2 IBUs

Nottingham yeast cake

1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %]- Dry Hop 7.0 Days 0.0 IBUs

I would triple the dry hops you have for this size (1.072) IPA.

I hear what you are saying on the pine, but I find Simcoe to give more citrus/orange than anything (though there can be variation from what I understand), though some dank/pine as well.

With your hops, I would go 2oz cent, 2oz citra, and 1oz simcoe on the dry hop. I would also increase the whirlpool/steep simcoe to 1oz.

Also, this is just my preference, but I do not like the character that British ale yeasts including notty and s-04 give to american hop-forward beers. Its just a strange tanginess that works in stouts, english ales, and some other beers, but NOT american hop forward beers IMO.

Finally, I would absolutely add either some CTZ or Magnum/Warrior at 60 minutes. Even if its just .5oz-1oz (maybe get 25-35% of your IBU’s from that addition). For a beer this big you need some bittering hops. Again, my preference.

I love dryhopping with Simcoe and I wouldn’t consider it overly piney at all. I would say its more a citrus/earthy with some subtle pine notes.

[quote=“Pietro”]

Finally, I would absolutely add either some CTZ or Magnum/Warrior at 60 minutes. Even if its just .5oz-1oz (maybe get 25-35% of your IBU’s from that addition). For a beer this big you need some bittering hops. Again, my preference.[/quote]

I had .5oz of CTZ for this at first but as I am experimenting I didn’t want to many different hops in the mix. Because of this maybe I can just use one of or all three of what I already have figured in for the bittering addition if I decide to go with one.

The beer may also end up even bigger. It’s calculated at 70% eff but last time I brewed I got close to 76% eff so that may add to your suggestion to use the bittering addition. Although in another of my post’s about FWH some argue that a lot of bittering comes from the FWH.

You will get a slight bit of flavor from bittering hops, but they are really just there to give you alpha acids for bittering.

I believe Denny did a side-by-side (referenced somewhere on this board) of FWH-only and FWH-with-a-bittering addition. FWH only can work for APA’s, but not IPA’s or IIPA’s (as this beer will likely be) as a result of his experiment.

I get strong pine from Simcoe. I love it as a complement to Citra, Cent, Cascade and other fruity american hops, but hate too much of it and can’t stand it by itself. All tastes are different, but to me Simcoe is pine bomb.

[quote=“mattnaik”]

I love dryhopping with Simcoe and I wouldn’t consider it overly piney at all. I would say its more a citrus/earthy with some subtle pine notes.[/quote]

That sounds like what I am after.

I had some of the White IPA from New Belgium this fall and tasted like I was chewing pine needles right off the tree! I think this is the first time I noticed that full in your face pine flavor/aroma from a beer. I just want to capture a bit more than a hint of that initially but finish out with the citrus. I also have some Chinook coming in my bulk hop order and that falls under the pine category but as I said in another reply I am experimenting and don’t want to many hops in the mix right now; maybe I’ll brew a SMaSH with it later this year.

To be honest I’ve never had it by itself. The most recent IPA I made had Simcoe to bitter and 1oz Simcoe/Cascade at 10min and 0min each and dry hopped with 1oz Simcoe and 2oz Cascade and I must say, it’s a phenomenal hop combo. I’d be curious to try a SMaSH with it but that might be over the top.

I’ve had only one New Belgium IPA (they’ve just made their way to Ohio), I think it was called Ranger, and to me it tasted like pine needles and paper. It was not good at all.

To be honest I’ve never had it by itself. The most recent IPA I made had Simcoe to bitter and 1oz Simcoe/Cascade at 10min and 0min each and dry hopped with 1oz Simcoe and 2oz Cascade and I must say, it’s a phenomenal hop combo. I’d be curious to try a SMaSH with it but that might be over the top.

I’ve had only one New Belgium IPA (they’ve just made their way to Ohio), I think it was called Ranger, and to me it tasted like pine needles and paper. It was not good at all.[/quote]

There are a few breweries out their that make an all Simcoe IPA. Weyerbacher makes a double Simcoe IPA and I think Flying Dog makes one as well. I can barley choke 1 down.

[quote=“Pietro”]You will get a slight bit of flavor from bittering hops, but they are really just there to give you alpha acids for bittering.

I believe Denny did a side-by-side (referenced somewhere on this board) of FWH-only and FWH-with-a-bittering addition. FWH only can work for APA’s, but not IPA’s or IIPA’s (as this beer will likely be) as a result of his experiment.[/quote]

Well, not everyone’s palate is the same, but I’ll chime in a bit with my experience. I do pick up a significant amount of flavor from a FWH addition vs a typical 60-minute addition for bittering. I don’t know if there is universal agreement on this point.

And as far as the FWH for APA vs IPA goes, that is a matter of personal preference. FWH bittering tends to be smoother than a 60-minute addition in regards to quality of bittering. I think a lot of brewers prefer at least some IBU’s from a 60 minute addition in an IPA to get a little more bite, but that is a matter of taste. Sometimes I will use FWH-only (or hopstand-only) without a 60-minute addition if that’s what I’m looking for.

[quote=“dobe12”]
Weyerbacher makes a double Simcoe IPA[/quote]

This. Is a terrible beer.

Though, I’ve said it before on this forum, the only single-hopped (American hops) beer I really really dig is Two Hearted. Most of the others, including Mikkellers, are too one-dimensional for me.

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