1st AG pilsner planned

Thank you Pietro, I just sent him a PM.

I don’t usually come into the AG section so I missed this one. I responded to Andy’s PM and he should feel free to post what I PM’d in case anyone else wants to see it or poke holes in it. I mentioned that this can be a tough style to make and that there are a lot of moving parts so attention to the little details can be critical (healthy yeast, oxygenation, mash pH, water, etc). I have a keg of an “American Pilsner” made with 2035 that is lagering along with a batch of German Helles that is in secondary and I just made SiouxerBrewer’s 100% Vienna Malt Lager in primary. All of these required a little more of my mental capacity. Cheers BeerHeads.

[quote=“andymag”]Assuming I go with the BoPils and use wy2278 (Czech Pils) I read that it may be best to ferment on the higher end of the temp scale to avoid sulfer byproducts from the yeast.

My schedule:
-aerate and pitch yeast starter at 65 degrees F
-drop down to 44 degrees F for 2 days
-bring back up to 55 degrees F for 10 days
-rack to a clean carboy and drop to 35 degrees F (2 degrees a day taking 10 days to reach 35 degrees F) store for 40 days.

Does this seem appropriate to those that have done a BoPils in the past?

I plan to use one wy2278 yeast packet and making a 2L starter with 201 g of DME. Should be around 1.037 for the starter. I plan to pitch at 65 degrees, so there is minimal temperature variations between the starter and the wort.

*** edit*** Another point, but not to do too much with fermentation. I am using 100% distilled water and plan to add a little (<3g) of CaCl just to get the calcium levels up to support yeast health. The reason behind the 100% distilled H20 is I want to limit the minerals that may seep through into the final flavor. However, if I am using yeast nutrient in my starter, can I skip the addition of CaCl in my mash?

Thanks all for the help. This is my first attempt at this style of beer or lagering in general, so I want to be sure it is a pleasant one :cheers: [/quote]

I think you need to rethink your plan. First, I wouldn’t use less than a gal. starter. Pitch at or below your intended fermentation temp…around 50-55F. Pitching at higher temps will result in ester formation that you don’t want. Keep it at that temp until fermentation is done. Maybe 3-4 weeks. Raise temp for d rest if needed (I can’t recall ever needing one with that yeast). After d rest, rack to keg or secondary and lager around 35 for a couple months or so.

Rethink your water plan. Get Bru’n water and actually calculate what you need. Don’t guess. Using yeast nutrient doesn’t eliminate the need for other water treatment. That’s where part of your flavor comes from. Even (especially) with distilled water, you’ll need a way to check and adjust your pH. That’s very important for light colored beers like pils.

FWIW, I have a starter of the same yeast going. 3 qt. at this point. When it’s done, I’ll crash, decant, and feed it another 2 qt. Before brewing, I’ll crash and decant again.

Thanks Denny. Currently I use EZBrew which is nowhere near as in-depth as the Bru’N software. I found that it is decent, but doesn’t really give you the oportunity to adjust the mash pH after the dough in.

I’ve experimented with about all the water programs out there and my best results have been with Bru’nwater. Yeah, it takes a bit of time to learn, but it’s not too difficult.

If you are a little low on the starter, consider dropping your volume for this batch, rather than stressing the yeast. I typically start with a 2.5 gallon batch, knowing that it might not be great, but will be drinkable and the yeast harvestable. Then I step up between successive batches to 5 gallons, then 10 gallons. I bag my hops, so I don’t have excessive hop material and it works fine enough. Not sure when you were planning to brew (plus, I hate using DME just to raise yeast; though I do it occasionally).

Speaking of pilsners and brunwater. I just brewed a helles on Thursday and brew n water calculated that I needed 18.5ml of Phosphoric 10% to bring my room temp PH to 5.6/ 5.3ph@mash.

Well just after doughing in I happened to come back by the bench and there sits my “syringe” with 10ml loaded and the acid setting behind it as I had forgotten to add it. Three minutes in I was able to add it and the mash PH came in perfect like usual at 5.54/ 5.25@mash.

Once you get the gist of the spreadsheet it is very intuitive. You still have to wing it a little when using unknown grain types and other but you will always be awful close. If I had not added the acid, my room temp PH would have been around 5.9-6.0PH and close to 5.7 at mash temp. Which is much too high for a delicate pilsner especially. Just nice to be able to know pretty accurate additions now without having to test PH/add/test PH/add. Ok, now I know on my first PH test it will be around 0.1-0.3 at most. Which is fine to leave alone because now you are hovering the 0.1- 0.3 points around 5.2-5.5PH instead of <5.0 or well over 6.0PH which could be adjusted in the past, but that’s old school. I likE brunwater. :mrgreen:

[quote=“ITsPossible”]Speaking of pilsners and brunwater. I just brewed a helles on Thursday and brew n water calculated that I needed 18.5ml of Phosphoric 10% to bring my room temp PH to 5.6/ 5.3ph@mash.

Well just after doughing in I happened to come back by the bench and there sits my “syringe” with 10ml loaded and the acid setting behind it as I had forgotten to add it. Three minutes in I was able to add it and the mash PH came in perfect like usual at 5.54/ 5.25@mash.

Once you get the gist of the spreadsheet it is very intuitive. You still have to wing it a little when using unknown grain types and other but you will always be awful close. If I had not added the acid, my room temp PH would have been around 5.9-6.0PH and close to 5.7 at mash temp. Which is much too high for a delicate pilsner especially. Just nice to be able to know pretty accurate additions now without having to test PH/add/test PH/add. Ok, now I know on my first PH test it will be around 0.1-0.3 at most. Which is fine to leave alone because now you are hovering the 0.1- 0.3 points around 5.2-5.5PH instead of <5.0 or well over 6.0PH which could be adjusted in the past, but that’s old school. I likE brunwater. :mrgreen: [/quote]
Not sure if this is the best place for this question, but I have to ask it anyway…

I have been getting used to using a pH meter instead of ColorpHast strips. I will take a small sample of the mash and place it into a small, frozen glass (to get the temp down) and after a few minutes I place my meter in there. I’m usually reading the sample in the 90° range and the temp continues to drop (I see it on the screen) and the pH stabilizes after a few minutes, etc. and I might or might not make adjustments (to the mash) from there. My meter (a PH55 by Milwaukee) has ATC so can I assume that I do not have to do any adjusting of the meter’s reading? If my meter reads 5.3 or 5.4 at 100° and also at 75° and also at 65°, etc., that’s my pH, correct? I know the strips had a built-in .3 correction factor at mash temp (or whatever) but when my meter tells me the pH, that’s it… correct? Yes, I am a meter newbie. Cheers guys.

[quote=“Ken Lenard”][quote=“ITsPossible”]Speaking of pilsners and brunwater. I just brewed a helles on Thursday and brew n water calculated that I needed 18.5ml of Phosphoric 10% to bring my room temp PH to 5.6/ 5.3ph@mash.

Well just after doughing in I happened to come back by the bench and there sits my “syringe” with 10ml loaded and the acid setting behind it as I had forgotten to add it. Three minutes in I was able to add it and the mash PH came in perfect like usual at 5.54/ 5.25@mash.

Once you get the gist of the spreadsheet it is very intuitive. You still have to wing it a little when using unknown grain types and other but you will always be awful close. If I had not added the acid, my room temp PH would have been around 5.9-6.0PH and close to 5.7 at mash temp. Which is much too high for a delicate pilsner especially. Just nice to be able to know pretty accurate additions now without having to test PH/add/test PH/add. Ok, now I know on my first PH test it will be around 0.1-0.3 at most. Which is fine to leave alone because now you are hovering the 0.1- 0.3 points around 5.2-5.5PH instead of <5.0 or well over 6.0PH which could be adjusted in the past, but that’s old school. I likE brunwater. :mrgreen: [/quote]
Not sure if this is the best place for this question, but I have to ask it anyway…

I have been getting used to using a pH meter instead of ColorpHast strips. I will take a small sample of the mash and place it into a small, frozen glass (to get the temp down) and after a few minutes I place my meter in there. I’m usually reading the sample in the 90° range and the temp continues to drop (I see it on the screen) and the pH stabilizes after a few minutes, etc. and I might or might not make adjustments (to the mash) from there. My meter (a PH55 by Milwaukee) has ATC so can I assume that I do not have to do any adjusting of the meter’s reading? If my meter reads 5.3 or 5.4 at 100° and also at 75° and also at 65°, etc., that’s my pH, correct? I know the strips had a built-in .3 correction factor at mash temp (or whatever) but when my meter tells me the pH, that’s it… correct? Yes, I am a meter newbie. Cheers guys.[/quote]

With your pen the resolution is -/+ 0.1PH points.
With your pen the accuracy is still -/+ 0.1PH points at 25c/77f
The ATC will work between -5c to 60c/ 23f to 140f So the ATC should provide the same reading on the LED at 120f and 50f. BUT I find I always take my readings at the same temp of typically 70-77f just for the longest life of the probe and consistent readings across the board. So actually I could do without ATC as I am always taking a sample around 25c.

Here is the KISS method I use to find quick easy samples at room temp.
I use a half pint “slender/tall” mason jar for all samples. I fill only about 2" of sample fluid cover the jar and set in a “bowl” with 4-5" of cold tap water. Within 1-3 minutes I find the sample right at room temp and also the pen rests in the jar by itself until the reading stabilizes.

[quote=“ITsPossible”][quote=“Ken Lenard”][quote=“ITsPossible”]Speaking of pilsners and brunwater. I just brewed a helles on Thursday and brew n water calculated that I needed 18.5ml of Phosphoric 10% to bring my room temp PH to 5.6/ 5.3ph@mash.

Well just after doughing in I happened to come back by the bench and there sits my “syringe” with 10ml loaded and the acid setting behind it as I had forgotten to add it. Three minutes in I was able to add it and the mash PH came in perfect like usual at 5.54/ 5.25@mash.

Once you get the gist of the spreadsheet it is very intuitive. You still have to wing it a little when using unknown grain types and other but you will always be awful close. If I had not added the acid, my room temp PH would have been around 5.9-6.0PH and close to 5.7 at mash temp. Which is much too high for a delicate pilsner especially. Just nice to be able to know pretty accurate additions now without having to test PH/add/test PH/add. Ok, now I know on my first PH test it will be around 0.1-0.3 at most. Which is fine to leave alone because now you are hovering the 0.1- 0.3 points around 5.2-5.5PH instead of <5.0 or well over 6.0PH which could be adjusted in the past, but that’s old school. I likE brunwater. :mrgreen: [/quote]
Not sure if this is the best place for this question, but I have to ask it anyway…

I have been getting used to using a pH meter instead of ColorpHast strips. I will take a small sample of the mash and place it into a small, frozen glass (to get the temp down) and after a few minutes I place my meter in there. I’m usually reading the sample in the 90° range and the temp continues to drop (I see it on the screen) and the pH stabilizes after a few minutes, etc. and I might or might not make adjustments (to the mash) from there. My meter (a PH55 by Milwaukee) has ATC so can I assume that I do not have to do any adjusting of the meter’s reading? If my meter reads 5.3 or 5.4 at 100° and also at 75° and also at 65°, etc., that’s my pH, correct? I know the strips had a built-in .3 correction factor at mash temp (or whatever) but when my meter tells me the pH, that’s it… correct? Yes, I am a meter newbie. Cheers guys.[/quote]

With your pen the resolution is -/+ 0.1PH points.
With your pen the accuracy is still -/+ 0.1PH points at 25c/77f
The ATC will work between -5c to 60c/ 23f to 140f So the ATC should provide the same reading on the LED at 120f and 50f. BUT I find I always take my readings at the same temp of typically 70-77f just for the longest life of the probe and consistent readings across the board. So actually I could do without ATC as I am always taking a sample around 25c.

Here is the KISS method I use to find quick easy samples at room temp.
I use a half pint “slender/tall” mason jar for all samples. I fill only about 2" of sample fluid cover the jar and set in a “bowl” with 4-5" of cold tap water. Within 1-3 minutes I find the sample right at room temp and also the pen rests in the jar by itself until the reading stabilizes.[/quote]

Okay, good stuff. I think I kind of had this down but I wanted to make sure. I had heard that you don’t want to place your meter into hot wort and it sounds like the pH at room temp is the ‘standard’ so that we’re all talking about the same thing without having to specifically state the temp of the mash sample. My meter seems to be behaving and I’m taking very good care of it (new calibration and storage solutions just arrived from Amazon last week!) so fingers are crossed that my meter takes care of me too. Cheers.

[quote=“ITsPossible”]Here is the KISS method I use to find quick easy samples at room temp.
I use a half pint “slender/tall” mason jar for all samples. I fill only about 2" of sample fluid cover the jar and set in a “bowl” with 4-5" of cold tap water. Within 1-3 minutes I find the sample right at room temp and also the pen rests in the jar by itself until the reading stabilizes.[/quote]

I put the sample in a metal cocktail shaker and swirl that in a bowl of ice water. Less than 60 seconds from boiling to 65F.

That’s an excellent method also. The pen definitely would rest right in the shaker when testing.
Your assured a faster transfer of heat/cool with metal than glass.

[quote=“ITsPossible”]That’s an excellent method also. The pen definitely would rest right in the shaker when testing.
Your assured a faster transfer of heat/cool with metal than glass.[/quote]

Not to mention that I wasn’t using the cocktail shaker for anything else!