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Malt Based "Hard Cider"

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magicdave

Post Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:25 am

Malt Based "Hard Cider"

I have a batch of cider brewing that is malt based. When it is done I will share the recipe with everyone. I will let you know that I used NB White Sorghum Extract as the base. I suppose you could say that this adventure in brewing is really making Apple Beer. It is not quite ready for the secondary fermentation but I did "steal" a taste and it is right on the money as far as my sensibilities are concerned. I am not one to attempt to copy a commercial hard cider since I have never had one that didn't taste like crap. I have been doing various versions of hard cider for 40 years or so and I like to keep a strong apple taste and the alcohol content is also quite high.
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Myaj

Post Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:26 am

I like that idea! I have some DME, I might play with it a little if I get time this weekend. Thanks for mentioning your experiment!
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magicdave

Post Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:49 pm

Have fun. As soon as I have a spare fermenter I plan trying some other light extracts maybe Pilsen. I am very pleased with the Sorghum since it has a very neutral flavor. I used 6 pounds to 5 gallons of cider plus one pound of organic evaporated cane juice in my yeast starter and one pound of clear belgian candi. I like high alcohol content in my cider. I also have been using various varieties of ale yeast. I seem to have settled on Nottingham dry yeast. It is fruity and can stand reasonably high alcohol before it gives up the ghost. I guess the reason I decided to try doing a malt based cider is that I started working at the Blue & Gray Brewing Company (blueandgraybrewingco.com) as jack of all trades. I don't do any of the brewing ......yet. They have 3 master brewers under contract but I learn fast and am having a blast doing everything from cleaning kegs and everything else to delivering beer to doing sales calls.
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ShenNung

Post Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:54 am

Hey magicdave! I recently did an experiment where I did a split batch of Christmas Spiced Cyser. One carboy had 2.5 gallons of regular spiced cyser (OG 1.070-FG0.998) and the other had the same but 0.5 gallons of it had been used to steep 1 pound of 40L Briess Crystal Malt. Pectinase was used to fix the heating problems. The FG on the malted one was only slightly higher (1.005 I think) but the difference was amazing. The color was very reddish in the malted one as opposed to gold, the mouthfeel was much better and it had just enough caramelly sweetness to make it something special. Everyone who tasted both raved about the "darker" one. Now, I'll never make cider/cyser without some malt again!
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ew1usnrr

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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:46 am

Malted cider = lamb's wool.

A mix of spiced cyser and malt sounds like the drink "Lamb's Wool". It was a mix of spiced cider and ale, but the ale was "pure" back then and did not contain hops. The drink was called lambs wool because the pieces of toast floating in it would swell up and soften and look like .... lamb's wool. Heat some up and serve it hot to be authentic.

"The apple harvest begins at the beginning of August, which the Celts referred to as Lughnasa, the time of strength and fruitfulness. A drink of Lamb's wool or Lammas wool ( from the Gaelic La Mas Nbhal or "feast of the apple gathering" ) was prepared, a hot spiced drink of cider and ale, with toast or pieces of apple floating in it".

Reference: http://www.geocities.com/opossumsal/appll.html
Last edited by ew1usnrr on Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ShenNung

Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:37 pm

That's a really interesting bit of history! I'd never heard of that and was having a very hard time finding any info on malted ciders. Now I'm even considering doing an all grain ale using cider instead of mash water. I'd do a "pectinase rest" to keep it clear and basically brew a low hop, very fruity Apple Ale. Any ideas on what type of grain bill to use would be very welcome.

EDIT: Oh, and I did heat some of that malted cider up. It was an f'n fantastic winter warmer!
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number2

Post Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:21 pm

ShenNung wrote:Hey magicdave! I recently did an experiment where I did a split batch of Christmas Spiced Cyser. One carboy had 2.5 gallons of regular spiced cyser (OG 1.070-FG0.998) and the other had the same but 0.5 gallons of it had been used to steep 1 pound of 40L Briess Crystal Malt. Pectinase was used to fix the heating problems. The FG on the malted one was only slightly higher (1.005 I think) but the difference was amazing. The color was very reddish in the malted one as opposed to gold, the mouthfeel was much better and it had just enough caramelly sweetness to make it something special. Everyone who tasted both raved about the "darker" one. Now, I'll never make cider/cyser without some malt again!



This sounds incredible. Have you considered dry hopping for balance/foil? How did the apple flavor hold up versus the malt? Any head retention? Yeast selection? Sorry for all the questions- I was at a friends home in PA last weekend and tasted the most amazing cider-you've inspired me-LOL!
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ShenNung

Post Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:52 am

Dry hopping, huh? No, I hadn't considered that, but the tannins/pungency from the spices (nutmeg, clove, cinnamon, orange peel) provided a nice offset for any malty sweetness. My next swing at this, though, will be a bit different with a lot more malt and will not be spiced as it'll be for spring/summer. I'll definately need some hops in there. Any suggestions as to what type of hops might taste best with apple?

How did the apple flavor hold up versus the malt?

Due to the small quantity of malt, it was mostly an apple cider, with the malt accenting the apple and spice beautifully. The head retention was a bit better than the unmalted one. I used WLP028 - Edinburgh Scottish Ale yeast, hoping it would help the maltiness stand out. It should also be noted that the version that contained malt finished primary and secondary fermentation weeks ahead of the other. Presumably, this was due to the extra yeast nutrients provided by the malt.

I'm glad I've inspired you, number2! When you get a malted-cider going, be sure to post it here, if you like!
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number2

Post Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:40 pm

"Any suggestions as to what type of hops might taste best with apple?"

Liberty would be a good choice here-nice and mild/floral. Probably anywhere from 1/2oz--2oz(5gal) depending on the RS, freshness(hops)and preference me thinks....
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ew1usnrr

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Post Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:41 pm

Apple beer recipe from 1674

Here is a recipe from Penn's family recipes, 1674. Quoted in "A Sip Through Time" by Cindy Renfrow.

Apple Beer:
1 hogshead of apple cider
3 lbs of sugar
malt
hops
beer yeast

"Stamp apels and strain them as usual for cyder, then take the liquor and warm it and put it upon the malt, then when it is com throu boyle it, and then worke it like other bere, when it is put into vesells put 3 pound of hard sugar into the quanaty of an hogsheed, a few hops should bee boyled in it".

They are saying to mash the malt with applejuice and boil the wort like beer with hops. My guess would be to use 1/2 pound of pale malt or 1/4 pound of extract per gallon of apple juice. A hogshead is 63 gallons and they are using 3 pounds of priming sugar. The Penn family must have really liked the stuff if they were brewing it in batches of that size.

Image
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number2

Post Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:06 pm

1674!!! Great recipe-thanks!
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ew1usnrr

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Location: Tampa, Florida.

Post Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:37 pm

Cider Beer

Here is an Australian cidery that makes malted apple beer.

"Billy B's Golden our famous apple beer has a sweet and acidic tang, a big malty flavour and 12% alcohol what more could you want?
ABV 12.00% 750ml $15.00 per bottle".

"Billy B's Dark Apple Beer
A lovely apple beer that has been compared to Black Velvet. One customer described it as Bloody Beautiful. It is basically an apple stout tasty and delicious".

Image

See: https://www.thorogoods.com.au/cider/products

It sounds good, but 12% alcohol? Wow. And $15 (AU) a bottle? Double wow. I bet that it is an interesting brew. It must be a sparkling apple wine with malt and hops added.

I may have to try this. Here is my guess at a one-gallon recipe:
Ingredients: Four 12 oz cans of apple juice concentrate, and a pound and a half of light malt extract and steep 3 oz of crystal malt for the "Golden" version. For the dark Stout version, also steep some chocolate and/or brown malt and roasted barley. Some flaked barley would help the head. Use English hops.

Procedure:
Boil one gallon with hops, add malt extract, boil to reduce the volume to three quarts, cool, transfer to primary, start it fermenting (Which type yeast? Champagne or English ale?). After three days start adding a can of melted apple juice concentrate each couple of days to the fermenting wort until all four cans are added.
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EmesisAle

Post Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:18 pm

historically malt extract was used in ciders. so unless you put a lot of malt in i'd still say it's cider.
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Sladeburns

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Post Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:46 am

Re: Malt Based "Hard Cider"

magicdave wrote:I have a batch of cider brewing that is malt based. When it is done I will share the recipe with everyone. I will let you know that I used NB White Sorghum Extract as the base. I suppose you could say that this adventure in brewing is really making Apple Beer. It is not quite ready for the secondary fermentation but I did "steal" a taste and it is right on the money as far as my sensibilities are concerned. I am not one to attempt to copy a commercial hard cider since I have never had one that didn't taste like crap. I have been doing various versions of hard cider for 40 years or so and I like to keep a strong apple taste and the alcohol content is also quite high.


That's really interesting. Sorghum is supposed to leave a bit of "tang" so that is probably a great choice for an apple beer. If it doesn't have the tartness you want (and you want to stick with more beer-y solutions), I bet you could throw in some lambic yeast or try a bit of sour malt next time.
Primary:
Hop Sting IIPA, Swanyweizen

Secondary:
Dopplebock, Schwartzbier, Concord Grape Port

Keg:
Berliner Weisse
Manbutter Beer
Zeus Harvest Ale
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EmesisAle

Post Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:09 pm

is that White Sorghum Extract made from malted sorghum grain or from sorghum syrup? i have a nice apache red sorghum in my garden. wish i had a phot to post. it's an amazing grain.

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